Leica APS-C -- No more!

[Rusty]

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A question for those concerned about being left with lenses they can’t use. Has Leica ever produced a lens that cannot be used on a current Leica camera, not every Leica camera but something in their current lineup. I’ll accept the use of an adaptor.

my guess is no but I don’t know for sure.

[Louis]

1 hour ago, lct said:

We could have said the same, more or less, in 1975 when the M5 was dropped, in 1976 at the demise of the film CL, in 2009 at that of the R system, again the same in 2020 at the demise of the Summarit line. This is the way Leica lives and survives in a world where many camera makers have shut down. In my country (France) i still remember of photo brands like Foca (the French Leica), Angénieux, Berthiot, Ercsam (my first movie camera), Royer, Secam, SEM, Royflex, Richard (my dear old stereo camera). Only Angénieux and Berthiot are still alive if i'm not wrong. Kudos to Leica for having accompanied me since my first M4 in 1971 until the M11 i should receive the Leica way i.e... when they are ready at Wetzlar . FWIW.

I still have my Angenieux zoom with Nikon mount that I bought at Montparnasse FNAC. It is like new and I even used it with my T. But somehow, it is harder to focus on CL!  

[lct]

1 hour ago, Enrique Santa said:

You are right, they have survive at our expense, after invest a lot of money in their projects. So you are right, after all this decisions, we can conclude fron a coustomer point of view that we can't trust in Leica.

The exact opposite for me, but you know it already .

[lct]

57 minutes ago, Rusty said:

A question for those concerned about being left with lenses they can’t use. Has Leica ever produced a lens that cannot be used on a current Leica camera, not every Leica camera but something in their current lineup. I’ll accept the use of an adaptor.

my guess is no but I don’t know for sure.

I am not concerned at all but lenses protruding (should i say intruding?) farther than the camera mount cannot be used on the digital CL normally, like the Super-Angulon 21/3.4 for instance. It can be used w/o metering but with red edges on the M240. The M11 is said to accept it w/o restriction but i did not try it on this body yet. 

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[jaapv]

I am a bit puzzled by this discussion. As long as Leica produces an L mount body, there will be a Leica camera that one can use TL lenses on. And L lenses. And M lenses. And R lenses And LTM lenses. Yes, there are (a very few) lenses that are limited by design, like the Hologon and first Super-Angulon but considering the sheer number of other lenses this is insignificant.

[nicci78]

14 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Both SL2 and SL2-s have highlight metering. The feature was introduced in the last firmware update. It works the same as on a GR III. 

I know. But not Q2 nor CL nor any other Leica cameras. 
If Leica won’t bother to release future firmware for CL. It means that it will never got such nice feature. 
Just look at TL2, the first cancelled APS-C : no update since 2018 ! 
 

[Kim Dahl]

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Of course, a TL lens can be used on an SL2.  But it is not made for that.  
It's way too big and clumsy.  It is too expensive.  

Can you put a small engine for a Fiat Punto in a truck?  Yes, you might be able to do that.  But does it make sense? 😊

Edited April 15, 2022 by Kim Dahl

[nicci78]

10 hours ago, tri said:

What year did the sensor itself in your dustpumping Ricoh GR III/IIIx come out?

The sensor is the same as every Sony current APS-C and CL. 
By the way, this 24MP FSI has the same performance as 26MP BSI used by Fujifilm. That’s why Sony did not bother to switch to it for its own APS-C. And I guess that Leica did not found it compelling enough for CL2. 
 

At least GR III has a dust removing system via ultrasonic shake. CL has nothing. 
 

I will not deter myself from using an absolute joy of a camera, just for the fear of dust. They are tools and ultimately it can be fixed in workshops.  
 

[nicci78]

By the way Q2 also suffer from dust on sensor, despite being “IP52 sealed”. Just like 100% of all compact and bridge cameras. 
Don’t put your compacts in dusty pockets, it should be ok. Or just use the filter adapter to seal the lens part, if you are paranoid. 

Fun fact : with compact or bridge camera you may of may not suffer from dust on sensor. It is not a sure plague. But it will take time if unlucky. 
However with interchangeable lens cameras you will have to clean the sensor several time per year. 
Pick your poison : once in the lifetime with workshop cleaning vs every two months cleaning by yourself at your risks and perils or in workshop. 
 

I really love compact and bridge cameras. Always have one, since forever. In every taste : film 24x36, film APS, tiny sensors (Olympus digital mju) , 1 inch sensor (RX10, RX100 or TZ100), full frame (RX1, Q or Q2, APS-C (GR III and IIIx) 

I only got dust on sensor on the Leica Q, cleaned under warranty. So don’t worry, just keep shooting. 

[Simone_DF]

My Q2 had two chunks of dust in the EVF right out of the box. It had to be sent to Germany to be cleaned, under warranty. Turnaround time was about 4 weeks.

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So far the GRIII has not dust. but I'm careful and I got a third party lens cap for extra protection.

[nicci78]

It is quite funny that Ricoh GR III got such a bad rap campaign against it. 
I fell into the trap of insecurity with some people talking badly about the compact. 
That’s why I never bought one before GR IIIx. I was curious about 40mm (awesome) and the cult following (I am now a convert too) 

The fan club were right. I should have bought one in 2019. So many lost years without such mighty camera. Critics are certainly from people who never own one or try to understand it. 

My advise : just buy one or both Ricoh and skip average and expensive Elmarit-TL 18 and Summicron-TL 23mm. Those two lenses make little sense with CL. They won’t make it a compact camera. No matter what. 

[frame-it]

5 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Critics are certainly from people who never own one

yes

typical on the internet

[espahbodb]

Leica TL full frame is coming, imagine Sigma fp L but in a TL body, there is no reason for producing apsc cameras when now full frame electronics and sensors can fit in the same body factor as shown by Sigma. I never used or liked APSC and never saw any appeal, TL lenses are mostly larger than M lenses so the whole argument of size is not valid here. TL body is more than capable of having a fullframe sensor,  the only limiting factor was electronics and now it seems the time has come to turn TL to a full frame camera. you can always crop after shooting to get an "APSC look" 😅 also if the next L mount camera is indeed a fullframe T that means all apsc lenses will work on it with auto crop. 

[MJB]

6 hours ago, nicci78 said:

It is quite funny that Ricoh GR III got such a bad rap campaign against it. 
I fell into the trap of insecurity with some people talking badly about the compact. 
That’s why I never bought one before GR IIIx. I was curious about 40mm (awesome) and the cult following (I am now a convert too) 

The fan club were right. I should have bought one in 2019. So many lost years without such mighty camera. Critics are certainly from people who never own one or try to understand it. 

My advise : just buy one or both Ricoh and skip average and expensive Elmarit-TL 18 and Summicron-TL 23mm. Those two lenses make little sense with CL. They won’t make it a compact camera. No matter what. 

I don't think anyone is expecting a CL to be pocketable in the way that a GR-series camera is. But the GR is a fixed-lens camera with no EVF - it's a totally different beast. I could see the GR as a secondary camera or back-up to the CL, but without an EVF I'm frankly not interested. Shooting without one feels too much like shooting with a smartphone to me.

[Le Chef]

2 hours ago, espahbodb said:

Leica TL full frame is coming, imagine Sigma fp L but in a TL body, there is no reason for producing apsc cameras when now full frame electronics and sensors can fit in the same body factor as shown by Sigma. I never used or liked APSC and never saw any appeal, TL lenses are mostly larger than M lenses so the whole argument of size is not valid here. TL body is more than capable of having a fullframe sensor,  the only limiting factor was electronics and now it seems the time has come to turn TL to a full frame camera. you can always crop after shooting to get an "APSC look" 😅 also if the next L mount camera is indeed a fullframe T that means all apsc lenses will work on it with auto crop. 

The challenge is that when shooting on FF using TL lenses, the crop factor means you end up with fewer pixels than you would get with a CL. Until someone makes a compact FF L-mount camera with about 50MP+ you will still be better off keeping your CL. The SL lenses still feel too big and heavy to work with a compact FF camera, so you’re caught between some new future L-mount small FF camera and unbalanced SL lenses, or keeping your CL and whatever TL lenses you possess. I’m happy to keep using my CL and TL lenses until the camera craps out.

[lct]

1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

[...] Until someone makes a compact FF L-mount camera with about 50MP+ you will still be better off keeping your CL. [...]

The tiny Sigma FPL has a 60mp sensors allowing for 25mp in crop mode. I have no experience with it though.

[Le Chef]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

The tiny Sigma FPL has a 60mp sensors allowing for 25mp in crop mode. I have no experience with it though.

If only! It’s like a Lego kit with an attachable EVF. Isn’t this where the T/TL/TL2 went wrong?

[lct]

1 minute ago, Le Chef said:

If only! It’s like a Lego kit with an attachable EVF. Isn’t this where the T/TL/TL2 went wrong?

Please do not deflect the conversation. You said that « Until someone makes a compact FF L-mount camera with about 50MP+ you will still be better off keeping your CL. ». I just replied that this is done already. 

[Le Chef]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

Please do not deflect the conversation. You said that « Until someone makes a compact FF L-mount camera with about 50MP+ you will still be better off keeping your CL. ». I just replied that this is done already. 

True.
But I’m not going to trade my CL for it unless it has a built in EVF.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[lct]

Just now, Le Chef said:

True.
But I’m not going to trade my CL for it unless it has a built in EVF.

Neither am i at present as i own only one L-mount lens but i could be tempted if i had both L and TL lenses.