Leica APS-C -- No more!

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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On 3/26/2022 at 2:52 PM, tritentrue said:

I don't know who makes the 020, Louis, but the last two I owned were stamped "Made in Indonesia"  on the inside of the swivel joint.  Epson has a facility there in Batam, probably no more than twenty miles across the strait from here. 

When I had a problem with the Visoflex not functioning on my TL2 back in 2017, the service department at Leica Camera Asia Pacific asked me to bring both camera and Visoflex in for inspection.  The problem turned out to be the hot shoe.  But had it been the 6-week-old Visoflex, Leica told me that I would have to replace it myself, as they are not repairable and not covered by warranty!

 

Is there a Leuca Asia Pacific. There's Leica Australia. Leica SIngapore. China has it's own agents, as does Japan. What does the Asia Pacific operation cover?

I'd also be incredibly surprised that a six week Visoflex had no warranty, since a WORLDWIDE warranty sheet  is in the box. I still have mine so I checked. For as long as I have been using Leica the warranty has been world wide. In many many cases, in Oz at least, equipment is sent to Germany for warranty inspection and repair. That includes all L mount here. Most M lenses are warrantied locally and film cameras as well.

Gordon

Edited April 4, 2022 by FlashGordonPhotography

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[tritentrue]

2 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Is there a Leuca Asia Pacific. There's Leica Australia. Leica SIngapore. China has it's own agents, as does Japan. What does the Asia Pacific operation cover?

I'd also be incredibly surprised that a six week Visoflex had no warranty, since a WORLDWIDE warranty sheet  is in the box. I still have mine so I checked. For as long as I have been using Leica the warranty has been world wide. In many many cases, in Oz at least, equipment is sent to Germany for warranty inspection and repair. That includes all L mount here. Most M lenses are warrantied locally and film cameras as well.

Gordon

Leica Camera Asia Pacific company info

My guess is that it covers Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia.  I've heard it referred to as a "subsidiary partner," but do not profess to know the entity's legal or business relationship with Leica in Wetzlar.

According to multiple sources, even some of their own employees, their warranty coverage is good only for items purchased from authorized dealers under their purview.

Regarding the Visoflex, I was aware of the warranty slip in the box, but took the salesman's statement to mean that I'd have to deal directly with Wetzlar if the Visoflex had failed within the period stated on the slip---even though it had been purchased from an LCAP store.

I welcome clarification (or correction) of any of the above, should anyone have demonstrably reliable information contrary to what I have written.

 Bear in mind that certain good faith business practices that are standard throughout other parts of the world are not necessarily applicable in southeast Asia.

 

 

[Le Chef]

Leica Miami is listing the CL and TL lenses as “Discontinued” so I guess the Leica APSC party is over. Shame. 
 

Let’s hope that Sigma or Panasonic can produced a CL-like APSC camera that we can use with TL lenses.

[Louis]

1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

Leica Miami is listing the CL and TL lenses as “Discontinued” so I guess the Leica APSC party is over. Shame. 
 

Let’s hope that Sigma or Panasonic can produced a CL-like APSC camera that we can use with TL lenses.

A few weeks ago, I visited Miami Leica store and told Josh, the manager, about this issue. As they are not allowed to say anything, he said ignoring the Leica decision. I told him to check LUF to have more information! 🤣
I guess they got it now!  lol

Edited April 4, 2022 by Louis

[IkarusJohn]

9 hours ago, tritentrue said:

Leica Camera Asia Pacific company info

My guess is that it covers Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia.  I've heard it referred to as a "subsidiary partner," but do not profess to know the entity's legal or business relationship with Leica in Wetzlar.

According to multiple sources, even some of their own employees, their warranty coverage is good only for items purchased from authorized dealers under their purview.

Regarding the Visoflex, I was aware of the warranty slip in the box, but took the salesman's statement to mean that I'd have to deal directly with Wetzlar if the Visoflex had failed within the period stated on the slip---even though it had been purchased from an LCAP store.

I welcome clarification (or correction) of any of the above, should anyone have demonstrably reliable information contrary to what I have written.

 Bear in mind that certain good faith business practices that are standard throughout other parts of the world are not necessarily applicable in southeast Asia.

 

Leica Asia Pacific has a history of creative interpretation of its legal obligations.  I had thought there had been a change in management.

After they tried to cancel a contract on me, I only deal with Wetzlar.  Thankfully, our local Leica importer is reasonable and helpful.  There’s no such thing as a “local” and “global” warranty, where Leica is concerned.  That is an invention.

[fotofool]

5 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Let’s hope that Sigma or Panasonic can produced a CL-like APSC camera that we can use with TL lenses.

Panasonic has a lot of investment and a big following in the micro-4/3 segment.  It would be surprising to me if they wanted to add APSC offerings too.

[Le Chef]

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17 minutes ago, fotofool said:

Panasonic has a lot of investment and a big following in the micro-4/3 segment.  It would be surprising to me if they wanted to add APSC offerings too.

Panasonic only because they're a partner with Leica and Sigma in the L-Alliance.

[lct]

A Sigma SD Quattro with Foveon sensor and L mount could be interesting i guess. Sigma had no plan for that in this interview from last year though.

https://photorumors.com/2021/02/28/sigma-no-plans-for-l-mount-version-of-the-sd-quattro-h-camera-foveon-development-starting-from-scratch/

[Le Chef]

3 hours ago, lct said:

A Sigma SD Quattro with Foveon sensor and L mount could be interesting i guess. Sigma had no plan for that in this interview from last year though.

https://photorumors.com/2021/02/28/sigma-no-plans-for-l-mount-version-of-the-sd-quattro-h-camera-foveon-development-starting-from-scratch/

As I’ve mentioned before if Leica were some way down the track on developing a CL2 but abandoned it in the last 12 months, seeing no return on investment, maybe they handed over the IP to Sigma to release under their brand name.

[lct]

Then Sigma would compete against their own APS-C cameras while developing a compact FF one accepting TL lenses in crop mode? I'm no armchair CEO but i would not hold my breath .

[tritentrue]

9 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Leica Asia Pacific has a history of creative interpretation of its legal obligations.  I had thought there had been a change in management.

After they tried to cancel a contract on me, I only deal with Wetzlar.  Thankfully, our local Leica importer is reasonable and helpful.  There’s no such thing as a “local” and “global” warranty, where Leica is concerned.  That is an invention.

"Creative interpretation" is a generous description.  A local authorized dealer recently described to me LCAP's "policy" on repairs for grey-market (specifically HK) goods, which starts with a "truncated" one-year warranty and parts coverage only.  It gets worse.  

In my thinking, if a manufacturer makes a product that is sold globally with a guarantee, its terms should be honored globally.   And any "agent" charged with the responsibility of honoring the warranty should be required by the manufacturer to do so--without hassles or quibbles.

Service issues comprise the main reason that my only remaining Leica gear is APS-C L-mount.  Their track record in recent years does not inspire confidence---to say the least.

[Le Chef]

9 hours ago, lct said:

Then Sigma would compete against their own APS-C cameras while developing a compact FF one accepting TL lenses in crop mode? I'm no armchair CEO but i would not hold my breath .

Maybe Sigma will launch an FP2 that functions like a camera rather than a Lego kit.

[NigelG]

15 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

Maybe Sigma will launch an FP2 that functions like a camera rather than a Lego kit.

Good news! Miami Leica have it in stock*…

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

*(Actually they don’t anymore…)

[nicci78]

11 hours ago, Le Chef said:

As I’ve mentioned before if Leica were some way down the track on developing a CL2 but abandoned it in the last 12 months, seeing no return on investment, maybe they handed over the IP to Sigma to release under their brand name.

They will never do such thing. 
By the way, my Leica store confirmed to me that CL and TL2 are now discontinued. They are clearing the inventory : only two CL left in all four Leica Store of Paris. 
They cannot order any of them anymore. 

There will be no successor whatsoever. Every APS-C plans have been cancelled. 
 

If still interested, SL2 is now the official way to use TL lenses in the future. 
This is great/dumb marketing… 

 

I am so disappointed that I already sold my whole CL and TL lenses line up. 
I am planning to left Leica for good. Still got Q2, but not sure to keep for long. My heart is broken. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by nicci78

[Louis]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

They will never do such thing. 
By the way, my Leica store confirmed to me that CL and TL2 are now discontinued. They are clearing the inventory : only two CL left in all four Leica Store of Paris. 
They cannot order any of them anymore. 

There will be no successor whatsoever. Every APS-C plans have been cancelled. 
 

If still interested, SL2 is now the official way to use TL lenses in the future. 
This is great/dumb marketing… 

 

I am so disappointed that I already sold my whole CL and TL lenses line up. 
I am planning to left Leica for good. Still got Q2, but not sure to keep for long. My heart is broken. 

Je le savais depuis des mois et je sens exactement comme toi! Quel domage pour cette decision de Leica. Je n’ai aucune doute qu’ une CL2 aurait tres bien marche! …  Mais….!

[nicci78]

c’est la vie. 
 

I would have bought the CL2 in a heartbeat. I am heartbroken instead. 

[lct]

Reminds me of an old french ad: « pas assez cher mon fils » (not expensive enough my son) (link) 

[nicci78]

Oh yes, the clio ad. 

 

Leica prefers to alienate faithful customers by pushing them upmarket. 
Sadly, full frame SL means humongous bodies and lenses. Nothing comparable with CL and TL lenses. 
 

Leica needs to understand that price is not the problem. CL owners choose the APS-C for the blend of excellent image in a tiny package. 

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Hallo,

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[dkCambridgeshire]

2 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Oh yes, the clio ad. 

 

Leica prefers to alienate faithful customers by pushing them upmarket. 
Sadly, full frame SL means humongous bodies and lenses. Nothing comparable with CL and TL lenses. 
 

Leica needs to understand that price is not the problem. CL owners choose the APS-C for the blend of excellent image in a tiny package. 

Consumers need to fully understand that continued production requires sales volume ... too low sales volume = unsustainable £€$losses

[lct]

I guess Leica was in hope that the digital CL experience would last longer than the film CL's (3 years IIRC). Not expensive enough for the Real Leica Man. Too expensive for Japanese cameras users.