Noctilux Lens - Fungus Impact

[Leicalover451]

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Friends - I have recently received a lens, which appears to have a small amount of fungus on the front element. I wanted to ask if there is any update on Leica servicing lenses which would have this problem, or third party service providers in London who can on the task and not damage the lens in the process? If it is a very small amount and doesn’t appear to impact optical performance, does the fungus issue matter? Would you recommend not using the lens on a camera  to prevent the spread to other lenses or the viewfinder? Is there a way to prevent the growth of the fungus? Sorry, lots of questions, but would truly appreciate your guidance! 

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Edited February 19, 2022 by Leicalover451

[a.noctilux]

hello

Welcome here,

the picture is too tiny to have good idea.

I suppose that you tried to clean it.

Front lens is (most of time since years) hard coated so unlikely to have fungus.

 

Two things can be done if you want to keep the lens or not :

1- Take the lens to a Leica dealer to show and ask them questions.

2 - If you don't want having it "cleaned/recoat/etc." return it ASAP.

[Leicalover451]

Thanks! I’ve added a clearer photo above for you to review. 

[a.noctilux]

- you would use it then forget about this "fungus"

- send it to Leica for replacing the front lens if possible, this lens is not on sale for a while, but only Leica can confirm

- return the lens

[farnz]

Welcome to the forum!

If you're planning to keep the camera then I recommend leaving the lens wide open with the front element in daylight/sunlight to kill any live fungus and stop it getting worse.  Two or three days should do it I think.

I had the same problem with my 80/1.4 Summilux-R some years ago and sent it to Malcolm Taylor in Leominster who did a superb job in removing the fungus without leaving any residual marks (fortunately the fungus hadn't etched the element's coating or the element itself).  He also collimated the lens, which for fast lenses with tiny depth of focus wide open, such as your Noctilux and my Summilux, is crucial, and removed dried grease and re-lubed the lens with his own formula (Malcolm is renowned for his knowledge of greases for Leica lenses) and it had never worked better.

Malcolm is 'old school' and only contactable by telephone or post and I don't think the forum allows me to post his details here owing to GDPR restrictions but googling "Malcolm Taylor camera repair" will find his details.

Malcolm went through a long and tragic episode some time ago that forced him to concentrate on matters other than camera repair and regrettably he received a lot of criticism here for very long waits but I understand that he is once again focused on repairs and his admin is being handled by his son now.

Good luck!

Pete.

[John McMaster]

I have a small patch of fungus on an internal element on my v4 f1.0, this is what Leica UK said:

"If the fungus is not too bad, it might be easier just to leave it ‘as is’. It it affecting image quality???

 

If you subject the lens to bright sunlight for half an hour or so, that will hopefully kill the fungus and stop it getting any worse.

 

If you want to get the fungus cleaned up, we would need to send the lens to the factory. Before opening the lens, the factory would send it to a place where the fungus can be neutralised.

 

They have to do this to avoid contaminating the factory with spores. Unfortunately, this treatment costs about 300 or 400 Euros + VAT before cleaning takes place.

 

I estimate you could be looking at a bill of perhaps £600 to £800 Euros (plus VAT) for the lens to be cleaned. 

 

This is an estimated sum.  The final cost could be more or less than this.

 

I would not be tempted to have the work done by an outside repairman.

 

All Leica lens elements are very carefully ‘centred’ during assembly. I wouldn’t be confident of a third-party repairer being able to achieve the necessary precision without special measuring equipment.

 

However, if the fungus was very bad, then possibly cleaning would have a bigger beneficial effect than slight de-centering. It’s difficult to say…"

 

john

[pgk]

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Firstly, I can't see well enough from either photo to tell whether this lens has fungus. Take it to a London based reputable dealer (Rde Dot, Aperture, Classic Camera, etc.) all of whom will be very used to checking lenses for fungus (and other blemishes) because they have to do so when assessing used lenses for resale. Any of the above can probably have the lens cleaned whether it is fungus or otherwise. Sometimes 'haze' can also develop for a variety of reasons. Either way its worth having such a lens sorted out and, if it is fungus, and unless the fungus is both very bad and has been present for a long time, there is little chance that it will have no permannent effect on the lens. The only lenses I have seen which are damaged by fungus were 'infested' and had been for a long time. They cleaned up ok, were usable but close inspection showed some residual marks, but they were badly fungus infested.

[pgk]

4 minutes ago, John McMaster said:

I have a small patch of fungus on an internal element on my v4 f1.0, this is what Leica UK said:

blah, blah, blah ....

Ummmm. Really? I suspect that they are being very overcautious indeed. I have had lenses cleaned by repairers such as Camerworks and Malcolm Taylor, both of whom know what they are doing) which have performed significantly better after cleaning/servicing than they did before.

[chasdfg]

I had the front element of my Noct f1 replaced in 2020 and it cost about £550. The repair was handled by Leica Singapore (to Leica Germany) and included shipping but I'm not sure if the costs are skewed because Leica Singapore handled it over me sending it directly (it would probably have been more inexpensive to send it to Leica directly). 

That said I had heard Leica don't accept lenses and other optics with fungus, but as John mentioned above, maybe they do have procedures to handle optics with fungus now.

I sent my lens in because I read on another thread back then that someone had the front element of their Noct f1 replaced. Knowing there were still parts (after checking with Leica directly as well), I decided to send it in while I could (my lens had front element scratches). It might be worthwhile having the front element replaced if they do have a new front elements. Practically it will make almost zero difference in day to day shooting though - I'd do it for peace of mind and maybe resale value but not to improve the image quality.

[M9reno]

1 hour ago, farnz said:

I recommend leaving the lens wide open with the front element in daylight/sunlight to kill any live fungus and stop it getting worse.  Two or three days should do it I think.

To Pete's excellent advice I would only add the following clarification:  do NOT leave the lens wide open in sunlight for any length of time while it is MOUNTED to the camera, or else the glass could act as a loupe and burn holes in your shutter.

[pgk]

1 hour ago, farnz said:

I recommend leaving the lens wide open with the front element in daylight/sunlight to kill any live fungus and stop it getting worse.  Two or three days should do it I think.

Whilst UV will apparently kil fungus, it depends on the glass used in the lens as to how effective this will be. I had a 35/2 v.4 with separation which I had reglued using UV cure adhesive. The comment that came back was that a very high dose of UV was needed due to the high UV blocking of the glass used in construction of the lens! So its difficult to know whether a very long dose of sunlight which results in a low intensity of UV within some lenses will actually work effectively. I'm just a little dubious.

[Leicalover451]

Thanks for the advice everyone. This is a Noctilux f1 V3, from the late 80s/early 90s. Does it have significant UV coatings that might prevent the sunlight approach?

I have also reached out to Leica and a few of the repair shops that you all mentioned above to get their advice. 

[farnz]

1 hour ago, M9reno said:

To Pete's excellent advice I would only add the following clarification:  do NOT leave the lens wide open in sunlight for any length of time while it is MOUNTED to the camera, or else the glass could act as a loupe and burn holes in your shutter.

An excellent point, Al.

I'll add that when you've detached the lens and placed it in daylight/sunlight make sure that any rays that pass through it can't fall on anything combustible that might accidentally burn your house down.

Pete.

[a.noctilux]

2 hours ago, farnz said:

An excellent point, Al.

I'll add that when you've detached the lens and placed it in daylight/sunlight make sure that any rays that pass through it can't fall on anything combustible that might accidentally burn your house down.

Pete.

😃

Where is my rear lens cap ?

[farnz]

39 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Where is my rear lens cap ?

If it's a plastic one can you be sure that the light focussed by the lens won't set it on fire? 🤔

Pete.

[a.noctilux]

Pete,

Never tried out with my unfungus Noctilux, no experience.

So let's use modestly UV lamp to kill these supposed fungus.

[Leicalover451]

Hi all - I’ve now been testing the lens for several days as well as leaving it in bright sunlight for hours. Fungus spots are very small and don’t seem to be impacting image quality. I’m also ordering a UV lamp to shine onto the lens to kill the fungus. Leica has said they do have a service to kill the fungus and can replace any elements on the 50/f1. I’m wondering if there’s any risk that the fungus could spread to the camera, despite having it left out in the sunlight? Any other tips you can provide?

[Kl@usW.]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Leicalover451:

Hi all - I’ve now been testing the lens for several days as well as leaving it in bright sunlight for hours. Fungus spots are very small and don’t seem to be impacting image quality. I’m also ordering a UV lamp to shine onto the lens to kill the fungus. Leica has said they do have a service to kill the fungus and can replace any elements on the 50/f1. I’m wondering if there’s any risk that the fungus could spread to the camera, despite having it left out in the sunlight? Any other tips you can provide?

Spores of fungi are part of our environment. They are on your skin, they are in the air you breathe and on the food you eat.  If you place a petri dish with a fungus nutrient solution  on your table for a minute, then close it and check it a month later, there will be fungal growth inevitably.They are just everywhere. Wether they grow or not, depends on the balance of factors: humidity, nutrients, light..... So you can be sure they are already on and in your camera. Wether they will develop into a mycelium, depends on the factors mentioned. There are more variables of course. What you can do: store your lenses and your camera as dry as possible, in a ventilated place, not in the dark, keep the surfaces clean. 

I remember an article from Zeiss on how to avoid fungus in tropical climates. I said just that: don't put the stuff in a sealed place and leave it there for a long time. If your place is very humid and warm, you need an air conditioned place--with a filter.