tashley Posted February 15, 2022 Share #1 Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Evening all! So I traded my 28mm Summaron for an Elmarit because the Summaron's soft edges, for many part of its charm, were not charming me. I had heard from many that the little Elmarit was sharp across the frame from wide open. The first one I got had a very notable asymmetry in that all shots were noticeably softer on the right than on the left though by F5.6 you'd have to peep to see it. It was worst on planar subjects such as building facades. I took it back to the store and they didn't have a replacement available so I asked for a refund, thinking that I'd like to find another one from another dealer, or maybe a second hand 28mm Summaron before leaving on a shooting trip that I hope will happen in a few days' time. Rather than a refund they asked me to take their demo model until a replacement comes in. So I took it home, shot a few frames and this one is just as soft on the right side as the previous one, but is also soft on the left, whereas the previous one was razor sharp on the left wide open. The demo one therefore has no asymmetry, which is a good thing, but is pretty soft on the sides until F5.6 and doesn't really convince until F8. So my question is, did I get two duds in a row, or is that what I should expect from this lens on the M11? If anyone else has one that they know is a good copy and which they have shot on the M11, I would love to hear their experience. Thank you! Below is a screenshot of a 100% zoom 'Compare' view in LR of the first copy I had - it shows two parts of the same image, of the facade of a long building that has matching pavilions at each end. The image was framed so as to crop the building fully within the frame so you are looking (counterintuitively!) at the far right of the frame on the left side of this crop, and the far left of the frame on the right side of the crop. I won't be able to do the same shot again for a few days but the demo lens I have now is about as soft as this, but on both sides, as judged from another facade I shot. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 15, 2022 by tashley Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329839-help-with-elmarit-m-f28-please/?do=findComment&comment=4384034'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 Hi tashley, Take a look here Help with Elmarit-M F2.8 please!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tailwagger Posted February 15, 2022 Share #2 Posted February 15, 2022 Sorry, but there are quite a few versions of the Elmarit, are your referring to the latest one? If so, I dont own it... yet... but from everything I've seen it's a razor blade. The above seems shockingly bad to me. I have the V3 pre-asph version of this lens and while I haven't used it on the M11 much yet, it seems better than what you're displaying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) This is the latest version - purchased brand new at full price! If you had a moment to look at any frames you have of your version, which the new one should presumably at least match for edge to edge sharpness, on the M11, I'd really like to know what you see - because to me this does look shockingly bad and the truth is that the temporary replacement one is about this bad on both edges! But I need to temper my expectations with a reality dose from other users before going back to the store again, which is always quite embarrassing.... Edited February 15, 2022 by tashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP1 Posted February 15, 2022 Share #4 Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) Sorry, M11 not yet delivered here. But this is a 100% crop from the edge of a M10 shot with the Elmarit 28 ASPH V1. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Interestingly this very lens is supposed to have corners and edge sharpness problems with digitals Ms and has been replaced by the ASPH V2 you have. Is your dealer specializing in lemons ? And, by the way, not my house but Chateau de Blois. Edited February 15, 2022 by JPP1 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Interestingly this very lens is supposed to have corners and edge sharpness problems with digitals Ms and has been replaced by the ASPH V2 you have. Is your dealer specializing in lemons ? And, by the way, not my house but Chateau de Blois. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329839-help-with-elmarit-m-f28-please/?do=findComment&comment=4384113'>More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted February 15, 2022 Share #5 Posted February 15, 2022 I've been using the current 28/f2.8 Elmarit ASPH V2 for about a year now and it seems to be sharp and contrasty across the frame. Your copy is probably out of alignment. Dropped? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted February 15, 2022 Share #6 Posted February 15, 2022 The top of frame downsized to the forum limit 2480 (x487). Elmarit V3, reported F4.0, ISO 64. Seen natively it looks pretty good for a 40+ year old lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329839-help-with-elmarit-m-f28-please/?do=findComment&comment=4384153'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 15, 2022 Share #7 Posted February 15, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had mine since 2007 and it is sharp corner to corner. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted February 15, 2022 Share #8 Posted February 15, 2022 Went on a whale watching walk this morning and came across this wall. It is not brick but it should demonstrate the sharpness of the 28 Elmarit. Hand held f5.6/750. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329839-help-with-elmarit-m-f28-please/?do=findComment&comment=4384299'>More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted February 15, 2022 Share #9 Posted February 15, 2022 Across from that wall. M10 28 Elmarit ASPH II f5.6/1000. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329839-help-with-elmarit-m-f28-please/?do=findComment&comment=4384303'>More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted February 15, 2022 Share #10 Posted February 15, 2022 I had the asymmetrical sharpness issue with an Elmarit ASPH (v. 1) in the M8 days. The front group had become slightly loose. I was told it was not totally uncommon. It was easily repaired. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted February 15, 2022 Share #11 Posted February 15, 2022 Both images were shot hand held. I find this lens reasonably sharp. I had the 28 Summicron for a while and, while I prefer its rendition, I just could not bond with the 28 mm focal length – mostly because I was wearing glasses at the time. After I had cataract surgery and I was able to toss the glasses, I decided to revisit the 28 focal length. The color and contrast of the Elmarit pairs nicely with the 50 Summicron V while the color and contrast of the 28 Summicron pairs well with the 75 Summicron. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 16, 2022 Share #12 Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) Here's an M11 shot with M 28/2.8 asph at f/4.0. Distant houses and branches. It's stored on Flickr at full resolution. Can be downloaded or viewed with two clicks at nearly full resolution. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 16, 2022 by scott kirkpatrick 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329839-help-with-elmarit-m-f28-please/?do=findComment&comment=4384377'>More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share #13 Posted February 16, 2022 18 hours ago, JPP1 said: Sorry, M11 not yet delivered here. But this is a 100% crop from the edge of a M10 shot with the Elmarit 28 ASPH V1. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Interestingly this very lens is supposed to have corners and edge sharpness problems with digitals Ms and has been replaced by the ASPH V2 you have. Is your dealer specializing in lemons ? And, by the way, not my house but Chateau de Blois. I bet you live there really....! Thank you - very useful. I must assume that this was at F5.6 or F8, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted February 16, 2022 11 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said: Here's an M11 shot with M 28/2.8 asph at f/4.0. Distant houses and branches. It's stored on Flickr at full resolution. Can be downloaded or viewed with two clicks at nearly full resolution. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thank you Scott - that certainly looks better than the loaner I currently have and is waaaay better than the one I returned. A question though: what sharpening did you apply, or is this an OOC JPEG? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share #15 Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) Thank you very much to everyone. It really is appreciated. My first copy was clearly a total dud but the loaner copy is harder to judge. At first I was pretty horrified with it. Then I looked at the MTF again and saw just how much astigmatism the lens has and how that doesn't really clear up completely as you stop down. Nonetheless what I am seeing looks worse than I would expect from that MTF. So I post some images for your consideration, for anyone who finds this sort of thing interesting! Firstly, a test scene I shot, followed by 100% crops at the right hand edge for each of F2.8 through F8. The left hand edge is similar. This was shot as DNG and processed in LR with M11 profile and my standard starting point sharpening, which is 60/0.7/70/20 From what I am seeing of the kind examples people have posted here, my loaner copy looks sub-standard to me but I would be very interested in your opinion. I also include links to the RAW files. F2.8 F4 F5.6 F8 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 16, 2022 by tashley Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329839-help-with-elmarit-m-f28-please/?do=findComment&comment=4384622'>More sharing options...
JPP1 Posted February 16, 2022 Share #16 Posted February 16, 2022 28 minutes ago, tashley said: Thank you - very useful. I must assume that this was at F5.6 or F8, right? F8. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 16, 2022 Share #17 Posted February 16, 2022 6 hours ago, tashley said: Thank you Scott - that certainly looks better than the loaner I currently have and is waaaay better than the one I returned. A question though: what sharpening did you apply, or is this an OOC JPEG? Thanks! I've had good luck with two copies of this lens, the v1 and the v2. Images of reasonably distant scenes have always looked good when viewed big or printed edge to edge. This jpeg is straight out of COne, certainly some level adjustments as the scene brightness range was the full 12+ stops, maybe I burned in the edges a bit. No sharpening. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share #18 Posted February 17, 2022 13 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said: I've had good luck with two copies of this lens, the v1 and the v2. Images of reasonably distant scenes have always looked good when viewed big or printed edge to edge. This jpeg is straight out of COne, certainly some level adjustments as the scene brightness range was the full 12+ stops, maybe I burned in the edges a bit. No sharpening. Thanks Scott - I have taken my loaner back because frankly it wouldn’t get any use. The dealer is being very helpful and I have the option of a new one when supplies arrive or a reversal of my part-exchange transaction involving my taking back my Summaron and getting my cash back. Overall I’d prefer the Elmarit if a good copy can be had. Interestingly it only weighs a tiny bit more than the Summaron and it is MUCH easier to avoid getting your finger in all the shots! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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