Interesting video: A critical look at Leicas' Marketing strategy and M11 features

[leicavkk]

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[Photoworks]

it does not look like he has a camera on hand. 

It would be better if he tries it first.

[SrMi]

Yeah, his main beef is that he did not get a free M11 to test. 

Not worth watching.

[leicavkk]

5 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

it does not look like he has a camera on hand. 

It would be better if he tries it first.

I agree. While I don't have a M11 yet, I have one on order and did try in store and personally love the camera from afar ( including the aluminum one which is my choice ).  But he does raise some interesting points, none of which are something any seasoned photographer or one familiar with the M aesthetic wouldn't have thought about, but not many people have shot at that high a Mpix and resolving power is the first thing that is worrisome. But Jono had a great anecdote about that in his review.  So this is something that even professional photographers don't agree about. Many say you have to get an APO, which doesn't necessarily seem to bear out from the images I'm seeing. 

[AlanJW]

Pure clickbait. 

[UliWer]

Well, he says many things which are also reflected by hundreds of comments in this forum. So there is nothing new or surprising in the lengthy video.

Unfortunately he states that he tells "only the truth" but he repeats a lot of things which are nonsense: shaking the camera, misalignment of lenses or other reasons of misfocussing don't only spoil your photos with 60MP but also with 6 MP.  

And if someone has doubts about whether you ever need 60MP (and I share these doubts), it is completely wrong to assume that you will see the difference only with "APO" lenses. In almost every case you will not see the difference  between 64 or 24 MP - even if you use an "APO" lens. And if you should happen to see the difference you will also see it if you use a 5cm Elmar. 

[darylgo]

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1 hour ago, leicavkk said:

Many say you have to get an APO, which doesn't necessarily seem to bear out from the images I'm seeing. 

The fun part is older glass and hi res sensors, we've barely scratched the opportunities to see images with this combination.  An apo lens is more predictable and would be seen by those who want the greatest technical excellence from their equipment as ideal.  Artistry and technical excellence overlap but they're not always one and the same.  

With that said, it's time to try my Thambar.  

[Sjz]

I enjoy his channel, he offers his honest opinion.  I don’t think it is driven by a ‘beef’ he did not get sent a prelaunch M11.
 

He gave a very critical review of the way Leica launched the M10M which was taken down a few weeks later.  
 

I value his opinion, I value reading (or watching in this case) different views, his review did not stop me buying a M10M.

[Photoworks]

here is another one trying to convince himself that his money is best spend on an existing m10

 

I didn't find any point to agree with him.

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

here is another one trying to convince himself that his money is best spend on an existing m10

 

I didn't find any point to agree with him.

Another one who talks about M11 without having used the camera.

[Tailwagger]

The hypocrisy involved is palpable. He asks, why hand cameras to folks who fail to know the history of Leica's, criticizing them for their inability to comment on the camera in a historical context, then proceeds, with no camera in hand to criticize it via the spec sheet.  Ignorance of the past or ignorance of the present, pots, kettles, black. 

Regardless, I suggest he get used to the new order. AFAIC, the M11 is doing quite well. Flickr already has 114 members in the M11 group, whereas the M10-R group after over a year and half. Seems as though the marketing strategy is working. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Tailwagger

[shirubadanieru]

this guy is the worst leica reviewer of all time, his other videos are unwatchable, not even going to press play on this one. 

[orcinus]

Sour grapes.

[Daedalus2000]

1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said:

this guy is the worst leica reviewer of all time, his other videos are unwatchable, not even going to press play on this one. 

Same here... 

[Jeff S]

When I first watched one of his videos I thought he was just joking.  Then I realized he was just seriously bad.  Never bothered again.

Jeff

[Kwesi]

7 hours ago, Photoworks said:

it does not look like he has a camera on hand. 

It would be better if he tries it first.

Agreed.

Given that this is his business, I'm surprised he doesn't just buy one review it and sell it. It would definitely make him appear more credible.

[Herr Barnack]

5 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

this guy is the worst leica reviewer of all time, his other videos are unwatchable, not even going to press play on this one. 

I would have to agree with that. 

Long before the arrival of the M11, I tried to watch and like 2 - 3 of his videos; they just don't do a thing for me.  His presentation style doesn't resonate with me, and it seems like he is very adept at talking for a long time without saying anything of value or relevance. 

I think @orcinus is on to something with his assessment (#13 above) as is @Jeff S (#15).

[tsleica]

He obviously is in the camera business..and didnt have to say a thing..and just sell Leica or whatever 24/7 till the cows come home..

And..he didnt have to take the time to make or upload the video..he just did..even though its not a popular L opinion or stance.

I think he did fine and its all food for thought..and all done in 1 take too I think..and its pretty much just straight talk..not the emotional reactions in a negative way evidenced here..castigating him...like he is the Leica devil or something..lol..

I think he is a member here..

But..I got to thinking more about this..

The M is such an anachronism..

A viewfinder camera that doesnt frame particularly accurately..

An interchangeable lens camera that doesnt focus all that great w/ teles or fast lenses..particularly in portrait range.or wide open.....and when you decide to switch lenses..unless you really calibrate all of em....there can be problems...and the RF can go out in a heartbeat too..w/1 knock..

Hence the Visoflex..

Which Ralph Gibson seems to use w/135mm..as aging eyes..and that tiny lil rectangle..are not a recipe for success..even w/good eyes..

As in..I see the only reason to use the M is if you like the physical form..and thats it..as it does not offer RF accurate focusing or framing..and thats what it is..isnt it? A RF camera?

And if resorting to using the Visoflex..you would probably be better off just using something else..that works a whole lot better..

But then again..its an M..and I guess thats enough.

Edited February 9, 2022 by tsleica

[M Journey]

Its damn if you do, and damned if you don't.

People who purchased the m11 have confirmation bias because they're glowing reviews are criticized as trying to justify an expensive purchase

People who received an m11 for review are saying what they need to stay on the review list

I think the value of the m11 is pretty simple.

1.  The m11 is has better technology that any other digital M.  how much better depends on what m you are comparing it to.  compared to the m10-r, it is probably 5-% better.

2.  Factoring all the different situations that you might use a digital m to take pictures, the end result is better on the m11 than any other digital m.  how much better depends on which digital m it is compared.  compared to the to the m10-r it is overall 5 - 10% better.

3.  The m11 loses some of the features to introduce new technology to help the photographer take better pictures.  How many features depends on which m you are comparing it to.  How much those features mean to you depends on your shooting style and very likely which M you have bonded with most.  compared to the m10-r, the camera is 5-10% different in terms of features and handling.

4.  The m11 is a very expensive camera and is more expensive or equal to any other (non-limited/special) m camera.  how much more expensive depends on which m you are comparing it to, whether you are comparing new prices vs new prices, new prices vs old prices, factoring in inflation, etc.  On the Leica website, a new m10 is $7995.  A new m11 is $8995.  Factoring in a 7.5% sales tax in the us that is $8594.63 and $9,669.63 respectively.  That is a $12.5% increase in price over the m10.  Buying both new today, the m11 is worth the $1k extra in price.  Vs a used m10, the value would be subjective and based on whether the features of the m11 are worth the difference in price.  

While some people have upgraded from a m10-r to the m11, the reason is usually due to some of the new features and not image quality.  The image quality boost from the m10-r to the m11 is maybe 5% and this is pretty negligible for most Leica shooters.   If you are on a budget constraint that will not let you buy a m11 new, the cost value vs other m bodies are moot.  If you have a camera budget that allowed you to purchase a m11 new, and saving money isn't a consideration, there will only be a few reasons to purchase another digital m body over the m11.  These reasons are:  1.  you want the bottom plate feature.  2.  you really hate the shutter sound of the m11.  3.  you value the 10-15ms different in shutter lag speed.  4.  you want a black brass m.  5.  you really hate the live view metering and prefer the other style of meeting, and 6.  you really want a black brass body.

I think it's pretty hypocritical to criticize people who are talking positively about the m11 based on the fact that these people were able to test/review the m11 for free, and then start criticizing the m11 without touching and using it.  The m has never been about specs, if it was no one would purchase it over any other camera.  The m has always been about how it feels to use it, the process of shooting with a range finder, and the pride and joy of ownership.  

The joy of photography as a hobby is almost never dependent on the quality of the photo.  This is why upgrading the m11 (or the new camera for the brand of your choice) is not a necessity.  However, I think that people who say that the m11 won't make you a better photography are only right in one sense - If you don't know the basics of photography or composition, or you don't put yourself in the situation to have a great photo opportunity.  All other things being equal, the m11 will always make you a better photographer.  If you gave me a Leica m11 and another color m camera and I take the same photo with both cameras, the photo shot with the m11 will always be better.  This is because, all other things being equal, the sensor of the m11 is better than other digital m cameras (for color photos).  This is not subjective, this is fact.  Whether or not I enjoy the experience of using the m11 to take that better photo is subjective and is a personal choice.  Every time I see people say that a better camera doesn't make you a better photographer, I think of flat earthers.  Logic just doesn't apply to those people, and I am better off staying as far away from them as possible.  Either that or these people don't understand that image quality is a big part of photography....

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[raizans]

No need to get upset you guys. He’s just griping about something he should already know: camera companies only give review cameras to YouTubers who say what they’re told to say.