M1 or M2?

[TomN]

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Hi all

I was hoping to get some advice. I have recently returned to shooting M cameras after a ten year absence and I have chosen the M-P 240 with a 35mm Summilux FLE and a 90mm Elmarit. I also have a TTartisan 28mm/5.6 (I sold my Summaron to finance the Summilux FLE). I am loving it but I still want to shoot film - I miss it. My main interest is street photography and I barely use the 90mm but when I do I'm happy to use the M-P. So my two lenses that I plan to shoot film with would be the 28mm (with Voigtlander finder) and the 35mm. I may consider a 21mm in the future. When I shoot street I mostly zone focus, and I do similar with landscape.

I prefer to buy locally and there is an M1 available in near mint condition for USD$1000 or I can get a beat up M2 for $1500 (which would have to be over the net sight unseen). I do like the simplicity of the M1 and also the challenge/clarity of not having to focus, but the flexibility of the M2 is also appealing. If I get the M1, I can also pick up a nice Rolleicord Va as well which could cover close up portraits etc. 

Am I crazy to go for the M1 and, if I change my mind, is it going to be difficult to sell? Also, do Leica still convert M1's to M2's? Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edited February 2, 2022 by TomN

[madNbad]

If the M1 is in really good shape, buy it and use it with the 28 and hyperfpcal distance. If you don't have an accessory finder for the 28, the entire viewfinder will give you a close approximation to the final image. If after using it for a while, they were designed to have a rangefinder installed. As an aside, without the frame line selector lever or a self timer, it's one of the nicer M bodies to hold. Welcome to the forum! No matter how obscure, someone will find the answer.

Edited February 3, 2022 by madNbad

[TomN]

I do like the clean look of the M1 and I do have a nice 28mm accessory finder. I hadn't considered that they would be nicer to hold but that's nice to know. 

[Erato]

M2

[archive_all]

Go for the M2. You can use your 35 and 90 with it. It's a dream to use with 35mm lenses with the uncluttered framelines. Best of all the 35mm FLE renders beautifully in film.

[Huss]

Don't waste your time with an M1.  If you are going to just zone focus and already have a 28mm finder, get an MdA.  No viewfinder at all, built on the M4 platform so it has the excellent quick load system.  It will also be a lot cheaper than the M1.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/39133227@N08/a389m7

Leica also made it as an MD - based on the M2, and the Md2 - based on the M4-2.

$1500 for a beat up M2 is way too much.  It should be in excellent shape for that money.

My preference would be to get an M that has a rangefinder if you can only have one film M.  That way you can zone focus if you want, and also accurately focus the rest of the time.

[250swb]

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I agree with Huss, for the 'bish bash bosh' efficient approach to street photography an MDa is a good choice, there's not much point in a rangefinder if focusing is only ever approximate. 

If you want have some options for other types of photography an M2 is better than an M1, but if you are looking at the mid to higher priced M2's (rather than beaters) an M4-P comes into the equation and is far more versatile than the M2.

But if you are coming back to film and want to do street photography be sure the limitations of zone focusing are going to be workable first, even with a fast lens the DOF gets pretty narrow on a dull day or indoors and if it's your only way to focus and it doesn't work for you, well, you need a rangefinder in the camera because you can't just bump up the ISO.

Edited February 3, 2022 by 250swb

[Fotoklaus]

The bright, clear and precise Rangefinder is the reason to buy a Leica M ("Messucher") and the base for the success of this camera.

The M1 was built for use in copy stands and microscope photography, the precessor of the MD and the MDa.

Your 35 Summilux and the M2 would be a dream combination. I also use a 21 with an Voigtländer Finder, but I do like the possibility

to adjust the focus via the rangefinder.

M1: For completing a collection, but no match to the M2 for general purposes.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Fotoklaus

[pippy]

Yet another who says the M2; it's just a far more versatile camera. A 21mm on the M1 would normally be fine but for shooting with anything longer? It would not be my choice of body.

As others have already said if you plan on using an f1.4 35mm then you will need to be able to focus very accurately some of the time. As it happens I'm one of three members in this thread who have the TTA 28 f5.6 and even that lens - slow as it might be - still performs 'better' when focussed accurately some of the time... at the very least!

I'd also say that both prices you quote seem on the high side; here in London you can pretty much always find an M2 in good condition from a dealer - and therefore with a 6-month guarantee - for under the $1500 you are considering for the beat-up example.

I'd also second Steve's (250swb) comment re; the M4-2 / M4-P cameras instead of the M2......and I say that as an M2 user myself.

Philip.

Edited February 3, 2022 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

More or less.

Sometimes less is more.

I would never use MDa as everyday M ...but when I use the combo MDa + S-A 21mm I'mhappy of liberating process of "nothing but photography",

at it's lesser to think of, so quick to use, so nice to hold and the weight is minimum, etc.

image seen here so often 🙃

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in real use I add wrist strap

(the day I photographed this combo, it was in a bag, so no strap)

as side note and M4 long time user,

I do appreciate the angle rewind crank& quick loading, just not so comfortable (if pretty) metallic wind-on lever

[RayD28]

I'd say an M2 but shop around for one in good condition.  Precise focus may not be a priority now but you have that option for later.  

[TomN]

Thanks all for your advice, seems like the M2 is the way to go and would certainly be my preference. Prices here in Oz seem to be higher than in the US and UK. I tidy M2 would fetch $1700. I'm going to look at the M1 tomorrow regardless and have been offered it now for $850 - there are no M2's anywhere close by as I live in rural South Australia.

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Edited February 4, 2022 by TomN

[madNbad]

Thanks for the update and some clarification of where you are. Inflation plus the rising price of all film Leica's makes even finding a beater M2 an expensive experience. If your main camera is the M240 and you just want something the scratch the film itch, 850 AUD is a good way to dip a toe into the Leica pool. If it was to be your only camera, then spend the time and money for a nice M2 or M4-2. Since you will have the ability to handle this particular camera, it will help clarify if it's the one for you or pass on it and wait. 

[TomN]

Yes mate, this camera will be just to give me a bit of variety and it seems to be about half of what I would have to pay for a similar condition M2/M3. I do have the M-P for my daily driver to which I will add a M246 Monochrome later in the year.

[Mute-on]

Yeah, that’s a good deal IF all functions and physical condition is good. 

A CLA to adjust shutter speed and basic service will add at least a few hundred $. Bad curtains, advance issues, rewind, light leaks will be more $$. 

Be aware that a good price can become a false economy. You could also get lucky and have no issues. 
 

Good luck

 

[a.noctilux]

@TomN

If you don't need your $850 now, in your place, I'd give it a try.

If you change your mind later, M1 would be difficult to sell.

Look at it as a " money lost" and gaining experiences.

Considering lab works also after using film.

 

Or just save the money to fund the M246 another "cult Monochrom" (for me even if I do use also MM1 the other cult Monochrom !).

👇

With same accessories (batteries, chargers, EVF, etc.) combo M240+M246+selected lenses can do most of I want to photograph anywhere, any time.

Film use is so limited for me that I could do without from now on, even if I have a good film stock, for a while.

Edited February 4, 2022 by a.noctilux

[andrew01]

21 hours ago, TomN said:

Thanks all for your advice, seems like the M2 is the way to go and would certainly be my preference. Prices here in Oz seem to be higher than in the US and UK. I tidy M2 would fetch $1700. I'm going to look at the M1 tomorrow regardless and have been offered it now for $850 - there are no M2's anywhere close by as I live in rural South Australia.

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That price is about the same as what M2s go for in the UK now too (around £900 for a clean one). The price is only going to go up further so I would go for it if you can.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by andrew01

[earleygallery]

That M1 looks in great condition, if the shutter is good then I'd go for it for that price.

Stick a 25mm Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar on it (the LTM version which has 3 click stops for focussing) and you will have a great street combo! The viewfinder will approximately show you a 28mm field of view so you can shoot loose and know you'll always get your subject in the frame!

[madNbad]

1 hour ago, andrew01 said:

That price is about the same as what M2s go for in the UK now too (around £900 for a clean one). The price is only going to go up further so I would go for it if you can.

 

Double the amount from the Pound to the Australian dollar.

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[andrew01]

18 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Double the amount from the Pound to the Australian dollar.

Yep $1700AUD is £890 by my converter.  You would do very well to get a clean M2 for less than that.