DNG contains only a very small 160x120 preview: a bug

[meerec]

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The fact is it doesn’t work. It’s a defect from a user perspective: I’m a user and I see it as a defect. 
Did Leica know about it when they released the M11? Is it noted somewhere in known limitations or some release notes? If they didn’t know, someone has to tell them and ask to be fixed. How they fix it … rewrite the DNG how they output it or ask Apple/Adobe to change — I couldn’t care less. I want it to work. 

[SrMi]

22 minutes ago, meerec said:

The title of the thread is correct: it is my title I chose for the thread I wanted to post. Why would it be incorrect? Yes - I’m implying something, triggering users to look into the post, and discuss. Is there something like a “correct title” or “incorrect title” and who is to make the judgement on this?
 

I’m not convinced by your argument that Apple or Adobe must change. It’s Leica who is producing a DNG file, DNG being a standard defined format, not any proprietary like say Canon RAW. They should have tested it better and make sure it’s working. If they ran out of time, or forgot to test it, it’s a bug and needs to be corrected.  

The thread's title is "DNG contains only a very small 160x120 preview: a bug".

I have demonstrated that the DNG contains four previews. Ergo, the title is incorrect, the DNG does not contain only a very small 160x120 preview.

Can you point me to which part of the DNG standard Leica broke with M11 DNGs? The tools exiv2 and ERawP (2019) can extract the large preview, and they have not been updated specifically for M11.

Note that the desktop version of Lightroom correctly extracts the large preview (import with embedded preview).

[meerec]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

 

The thread's title is "DNG contains only a very small 160x120 preview: a bug".

I have demonstrated that the DNG contains four previews. Ergo, the title is incorrect, the DNG does not contain only a very small 160x120 preview.

Can you point me to which part of the DNG standard Leica broke with M11 DNGs? The tools exiv2 and ERawP (2019) can extract the large preview, and they have not been updated specifically for M11.

Note that the desktop version of Lightroom correctly extracts the large preview (import with embedded preview).

You don’t get my points across, mainly because you are not using the same tools. Any further discussion with you is futile and not adding anything. Nothing personal, don’t get me wrong. I just don’t have anything to add to what you say and what I keep hearing from you doesn’t add any value to me. Thanks. I don’t stay corrected in any way: it’s my title of a post, I can’t even change it even I wanted to, and I don’t want to anyway. 

[Daedalus2000]

3 hours ago, meerec said:

You don’t get my points across, mainly because you are not using the same tools. Any further discussion with you is futile and not adding anything. Nothing personal, don’t get me wrong. I just don’t have anything to add to what you say and what I keep hearing from you doesn’t add any value to me. Thanks. I don’t stay corrected in any way: it’s my title of a post, I can’t even change it even I wanted to, and I don’t want to anyway. 

Maybe you dont get his point, which is that the discrepancy is happening downstream on the Apple software and not on the DNG (unless of course there is a DNG specification that is violated by Leica). If Leica is following the DNG specs then they cannot predict how someone else will write their software, so maybe all you have to do is wait for Apple to adjust their software. So, it may not be a Leica bug and it is unfair to target them as the source of the problem, that is his point, very simple. If you ever wrote software you would know that unless there is a specific protocol or specification of how an output is used downstream as input from another piece of software, it is the job of the reader of the output to adjust their software. Same thing with raw processing, most raw processors need to adjust to new cameras and their raw files. You cannot blame Leica that DxO Photolab do not read their dngs...

In any case thanks for raising awareness for this issue.

[meerec]

1 hour ago, Daedalus2000 said:

Maybe you dont get his point, which is that the discrepancy is happening downstream on the Apple software and not on the DNG (unless of course there is a DNG specification that is violated by Leica). If Leica is following the DNG specs then they cannot predict how someone else will write their software, so maybe all you have to do is wait for Apple to adjust their software. So, it may not be a Leica bug and it is unfair to target them as the source of the problem, that is his point, very simple. If you ever wrote software you would know that unless there is a specific protocol or specification of how an output is used downstream as input from another piece of software, it is the job of the reader of the output to adjust their software. Same thing with raw processing, most raw processors need to adjust to new cameras and their raw files. You cannot blame Leica that DxO Photolab do not read their dngs...

In any case thanks for raising awareness for this issue.

Mate, I’ve been writing software, and consulting in software engineering all my professional life that is more than 40 years now, focussed on testing a good part of it.

Leica released a camera, and Fotos app into an existing ecosystem of other hardware and software tools and platforms. It wasn’t Apple or Adobe to release it but Leica. It would appear that Leica didn’t test their product in those environments. I’m stating facts as simple and straightforward as it can be. Leica’s new product, which is the M11 and the updated app, aren’t working properly with the existing systems that community of users have been using for quite some time. That includes Leica’s older products in those Apple/Adobe environments. 

[Photoworks]

I suppose you posted this only to vent a little.  

maybe you should direct you disappointment to Leica support if you don't like other forum users input.

I think the iPad is the big limitation here, it is not made for serious volume editing.

[meerec]

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27 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I think the iPad is the big limitation here, it is not made for serious volume editing.

Hahaha ok found another “passionate Leica user” … (fan boy that is) that is losing the view of the real world. I’m out of here, it’s a rather toxic forum. 

Where in which moment did I mention “serious volume editing” on iPad?

[elmars]

vor einer Stunde schrieb meerec:

It would appear that Leica didn’t test their product in those environments.

They did.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb meerec:

Leica’s new product, which is the M11 and the updated app, aren’t working properly with the existing system

This is obviously right, but: Look at the Leica Fotos App and You will see, besides the name of the camera stands "BETA". You should know what this means. And from first day on (January 13th) Leica said clwar for everybody that connectivity is not ready yet and will probably not be before autumn.

[digitalfx]

3 hours ago, meerec said:

Mate, I’ve been writing software, and consulting in software engineering all my professional life that is more than 40 years now, focussed on testing a good part of it.

Leica released a camera, and Fotos app into an existing ecosystem of other hardware and software tools and platforms. It wasn’t Apple or Adobe to release it but Leica. It would appear that Leica didn’t test their product in those environments. I’m stating facts as simple and straightforward as it can be. Leica’s new product, which is the M11 and the updated app, aren’t working properly with the existing systems that community of users have been using for quite some time. That includes Leica’s older products in those Apple/Adobe environments. 

The iPad version of FOTOS is not ready yet as clearly stated by Leica on the M11 product page. It will be released later this year. The iPhone version of FOTOS seems to use the correct preview as does Adobe Lightroom. Full support will be added:

this will be available in the second half of 2022, and will activate the advanced Bluetooth^® features of the M11.

As @elmars pointed out...even the iPhone version of FOTOS is still in Beta which is clearly noted in the app when you select M11

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[Daedalus2000]

10 hours ago, meerec said:

Mate, I’ve been writing software, and consulting in software engineering all my professional life that is more than 40 years now, focussed on testing a good part of it.

Leica released a camera, and Fotos app into an existing ecosystem of other hardware and software tools and platforms. It wasn’t Apple or Adobe to release it but Leica. It would appear that Leica didn’t test their product in those environments. I’m stating facts as simple and straightforward as it can be. Leica’s new product, which is the M11 and the updated app, aren’t working properly with the existing systems that community of users have been using for quite some time. That includes Leica’s older products in those Apple/Adobe environments. 

Ok fair points. It seems that Leica's software testing is not up to par, unless of course it is still work in progress.

Anyway, it is not worth getting upset about it (as you seemed to have done in another post), we are just exchanging opinions.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daedalus2000