Would you buy an EVF only M camera? [MERGED]

[lct]

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1 minute ago, ksrhee said:

What's the title of this posting?  

Would you buy an EVF only camera with an M mount?  

Reading this admittedly long thread might help.

[IkarusJohn]

Round and round we go.

Surely the point is, we already know what such a camera would be like?  Put the EVF onto your digital M, and there you have it.  No other change than putting the EVF inside the camera housing, instead of the rangefinder.  That’s it.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited March 19, 2024 by IkarusJohn

[Smudgerer]

Again, I've said it before somewhere here on the Forum, if Leica feels that they can make money with an EVF only M then maybe they should do just that, there seems to be at least three people who'd buy one.............BUT for me it's "no thank you", I'll stay with the "old school" RF model Ms, already the M range is becoming too electronically bloated and dependent on software/firmware that is somewhat of an Achilles Heel for Leica. I'd much rather Leica spend some of their last year's profits on service and customer support.

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, ksrhee said:

What's the title of this posting?  

Would you buy an EVF only camera with an M mount?  

NO! 

[algrove]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

NO! 

YES, YES, YES.

DID I SAY YES! Then I will not have to use my SL3 when wanting to use Leica M glass and an EVF. Plus smaller,etc,etc.

[algrove]

2 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Again, I've said it before somewhere here on the Forum, if Leica feels that they can make money with an EVF only M then maybe they should do just that, there seems to be at least three people who'd buy one.............BUT for me it's "no thank you", I'll stay with the "old school" RF model Ms, already the M range is becoming too electronically bloated and dependent on software/firmware that is somewhat of an Achilles Heel for Leica. I'd much rather Leica spend some of their last year's profits on service and customer support.

That last sentence of yours sure hits home.😀

[IkarusJohn]

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4 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Again, I've said it before somewhere here on the Forum, if Leica feels that they can make money with an EVF only M then maybe they should do just that, there seems to be at least three people who'd buy one.............BUT for me it's "no thank you", I'll stay with the "old school" RF model Ms, already the M range is becoming too electronically bloated and dependent on software/firmware that is somewhat of an Achilles Heel for Leica. I'd much rather Leica spend some of their last year's profits on service and customer support.

I have come to the same position, though I’m not sure that misrepresenting the enthusiasm of those who would is very helpful, or respectful.

[Smudgerer]

44 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I have come to the same position, though I’m not sure that misrepresenting the enthusiasm of those who would is very helpful, or respectful.

Humour, that's all that was................of course there's more than three people, probably dozens of them.

[IkarusJohn]

27 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

Humour, that's all that was................of course there's more than three people, probably dozens of them.

Oh, I think that was clear …

[Stevejack]

8 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Again, I've said it before somewhere here on the Forum, if Leica feels that they can make money with an EVF only M then maybe they should do just that, there seems to be at least three people who'd buy one.............BUT for me it's "no thank you", I'll stay with the "old school" RF model Ms, already the M range is becoming too electronically bloated and dependent on software/firmware that is somewhat of an Achilles Heel for Leica. I'd much rather Leica spend some of their last year's profits on service and customer support.

I think this would be the best outcome for an EVF only M. They can put all the bells and whistles and fancy tech into the EVF version, and bring the rangefinder model back to basics. Trying to do too much in a single rangefinder model is already splitting their user base with people turning away from the new model because they don't want the always on live-view to be forced down their throats. Taking two steps forward in improving the visoflex experience is also taking one step back in terms of the simplistic rangefinder experience.

The more that using a rangefinder feels like using every other mirrorless camera, the less popular it will be among its core fanbase. I guess the question for Leica is; will they bring on more new users by hybridising their rangefinder model than they lose by upsetting their existing fanbase. Tricky waters to navigate.

[lct]

With the M11 already a commercial success, it would be unwise to bet on Leica making any kind of comeback IMHO. Both M12 and EVF-M camera, if any, will then be modern cameras i suspect.

[IkarusJohn]

8 hours ago, lct said:

With the M11 already a commercial success, it would be unwise to bet on Leica making any kind of comeback IMHO. Both M12 and EVF-M camera, if any, will then be modern cameras i suspect.

I’m intrigued - you know more than the rest of us.  I would imagine when (if) Leica actually addresses the issues with the M11, that “commercial success” might not translate into profit.

I think (actually, no I believe) Leica knows exactly what the problem is.  It isn’t profiles, SD cards, Fotos or any of the other things discussed in the previous 65 pages and 1315 posts.  It isn’t hardware and it isn’t firmware.  It’s the whole concept - any combination of the wonderful things this camera can do reaches a point when it’s just too much - it’s overwhelmed, and it freezes, crashes or just produces corrupt files.

To fix it, Leica either needs to get the camera to do less (disabling core functionality) or make a huge hardware upgrade - a new processor and more operating memory with new firmware.  The camera is simply making promises it can’t fill.  Leica ain’t going to fix it.

Just my guess …

[Smudgerer]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m intrigued - you know more than the rest of us.  I would imagine when (if) Leica actually addresses the issues with the M11, that “commercial success” might not translate into profit.

I think (actually, no I believe) Leica knows exactly what the problem is.  It isn’t profiles, SD cards, Fotos or any of the other things discussed in the previous 65 pages and 1315 posts.  It isn’t hardware and it isn’t firmware.  It’s the whole concept - any combination of the wonderful things this camera can do reaches a point when it’s just too much - it’s overwhelmed, and it freezes, crashes or just produces corrupt files.

To fix it, Leica either needs to get the camera to do less (disabling core functionality) or make a huge hardware upgrade - a new processor and more operating memory with new firmware.  The camera is simply making promises it can’t fill.  Leica ain’t going to fix it.

Just my guess …

Well said. The M as it is now with the M11 and the direction that Leica seems to pointing this line of cameras in is way too complicated for the skill set that Leica has, ( it's always trying to play "catch-up" with software/firmware problems after the release to the frustration of owners and never really nails the problem before the next M variant arrives ), and perhaps what M owners really want and need. It is all getting too complicated and stepping away from the basic philosophy that's driven the M since inception, KISS-( Keep It Simple Stupid ). However as much as I hate to admit it maybe if they do release an EVF M, splitting the line into a rangefinder M and an EVF M with both camera body versions totally compatible with the range of Leica M mount lenses, then they could step back on trying to stuff more and more complicated and in my view unnecessary electronic "enhancements" into the M rangefinder body model, simplify it again and return to a more basic and reliable form, ( a M10+ ? ). The EVF M model can then offer all the electronic bells and whistles desired by those who'd wish to own such a M camera and such a move might actually help save the RF-M as we know it and enable it to successfully continue onwards.

Edited March 20, 2024 by Smudgerer

[sebben]

Couldn't agree more. A smaller EVF camera like a Q with interchangeable lenses would take a lot of pressure off the M to try and be everything it isn't. 

 

[Qwertynm]

maybe what we are guessing here about should be the SL3-S. A 24MP more video-centric rangefinder-style L mount camera that is small enough to make adapting M mount lenses more viable (compared to the SL lineup Leica already offers). This way the customer could still choose between AF lenses with L mount (native) or add an adapter and go manual M mount. I don't see Leica ever changing the legacy of the M (nor should they imho) and an EVF based M mount camera would be the even smaller niche than the rangefinder M already is.

[lct]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m intrigued - you know more than the rest of us [...]

I don't know more than this:

https://www.macfilos.com/2024/02/22/leica-sales-revenue-increases-for-third-successive-year/

Edited March 20, 2024 by lct

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Qwertynm said:

maybe what we are guessing here about should be the SL3-S. A 24MP more video-centric rangefinder-style L mount camera that is small enough to make adapting M mount lenses more viable (compared to the SL lineup Leica already offers). This way the customer could still choose between AF lenses with L mount (native) or add an adapter and go manual M mount. I don't see Leica ever changing the legacy of the M (nor should they imho) and an EVF based M mount camera would be the even smaller niche than the rangefinder M already is.

Sounds logical to me but i'm no armchair CEO.

[IkarusJohn]

9 hours ago, lct said:

Sounds logical to me but i'm no armchair CEO.

The hope is the actual ceo listens - no armchairs injured …

[IkarusJohn]

9 hours ago, Qwertynm said:

maybe what we are guessing here about should be the SL3-S. A 24MP more video-centric rangefinder-style L mount camera that is small enough to make adapting M mount lenses more viable (compared to the SL lineup Leica already offers). This way the customer could still choose between AF lenses with L mount (native) or add an adapter and go manual M mount. I don't see Leica ever changing the legacy of the M (nor should they imho) and an EVF based M mount camera would be the even smaller niche than the rangefinder M already is.

This concept has nothing to do with the L mount.

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Hallo,

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[lct]

29 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

The hope is the actual ceo listens - no armchairs injured …

If he listens to me he must feel quiet 😄