Starter but capable film camera for 2022?

[spydrxx]

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9 minutes ago, aksclix said:

I’ll just leave the ISO at box speed then.. interesting to learn that the whole film has to be shot at that speed.. thinking about it a little makes that obvious though.. 

thank you all for the patient explanations.. appreciate it much

I don't want to confuse you at this stage of your learning. But for the future you might Google "stand development". It is an alternate development process for B&W and with certain developers can give certainly acceptable results shooting at different ISO/ASA values on the same roll of film.

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44 minutes ago, aksclix said:

interesting to learn that the whole film has to be shot at that speed.. thinking about it a little makes that obvious though.. 

There's nothing technically stopping you from using a different ISO for each shot, but it really doesn't make sense for roll film since there's no practical way of developing each frame separately - you really need to develop the entire roll together using the same developer/dilution/development time.  If you were shooting sheet film (4x5, 8x10), then you would have individual control over each sheet.

[Ambro51]

Restart Simple.  Minolta SRT with a 50mm Rokkor.  ~~~~~~~

[250swb]

30 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

I don't want to confuse you at this stage of your learning. But for the future you might Google "stand development". It is an alternate development process for B&W and with certain developers can give certainly acceptable results shooting at different ISO/ASA values on the same roll of film.

I've taught photography to beginners and the key rule is to limit potential mistakes and variables to one at a time so they can be learned from, not to look for new ways to make mistakes or combine variables to make even more exotic variables and even more baffling mistakes.

I think the only advise a beginner needs is 'read what it says on the label', some techie boffin has gone to a lot of trouble to make sure the product works, opinions come way later.

[RayD28]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

I've taught photography to beginners and the key rule is to limit potential mistakes and variables to one at a time so they can be learned from, not to look for new ways to make mistakes or combine variables to make even more exotic variables and even more baffling mistakes.

I think the only advise a beginner needs is 'read what it says on the label', some techie boffin has gone to a lot of trouble to make sure the product works, opinions come way later.

Cannot agree more.  It's bad enough to make accidental mistakes.  

[spydrxx]

3 hours ago, 250swb said:

I've taught photography to beginners and the key rule is to limit potential mistakes and variables to one at a time so they can be learned from, not to look for new ways to make mistakes or combine variables to make even more exotic variables and even more baffling mistakes.

I think the only advise a beginner needs is 'read what it says on the label', some techie boffin has gone to a lot of trouble to make sure the product works, opinions come way later.

It's always good to know that rather than absolutes there are alternatives which might be explored at some later time. Otherwise we might not know that other manufacturer's lenses work just fine on Leica bodies, that incident metering in many cases works as well as or better than reflective metering, or that different developers can produce different results. My comment was for the op to consider in the future something to explore given his comment being led to believe an alternative didn't exist.

[250swb]

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16 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

It's always good to know that rather than absolutes there are alternatives which might be explored at some later time. Otherwise we might not know that other manufacturer's lenses work just fine on Leica bodies, that incident metering in many cases works as well as or better than reflective metering, or that different developers can produce different results. My comment was for the op to consider in the future something to explore given his comment being led to believe an alternative didn't exist.

In the future yes, but why deploy a smoke barrage and disguise the future in a haze of uncertainty? Isn't this a case of just because you know something you feel obliged to say it, irrespective of the level you deploy you wisdom at? 

[aksclix]

A lot of film related discussions is going above my head anyway.. I am being selective and only after I develop the first roll I am currently shooting with, I’ll know what mistakes to avoid.. unfortunately this first roll I am shooting with has some crazy colors in it.. so I may have to go they another conventional roll before I course correct 😊 so far, using the camera has been pretty straight forward.. 

the + 0 - indicators are helping me expose the image.. will hope my results won’t be too disappointing so far.. 

I’ve gone thru a dozen shots and every time I’ve looked at the back of the camera after shooting 😂

[philipus]

That's a lovely looking camera, congratulations. And great choice of lens too. In case you haven't found it before this is a good site for quick reviews of lenses to find the "good versions" of them, and this is a good site to check serial numbers to find the "good" versions of the lenses.

I hope we get to see you in the I Like Film thread later. All film cameras are welcome there.

Philip

23 hours ago, aksclix said:

Thank you all.. it’s a bit late for suggestions now.. 😁 chose this over the FM as it only had 1/1000 shutter speed.. luckily, found a 105 f/2.5 with the same seller and got both.. for now, it has a dubblefilm jelly 200 roll which I had lying around for no reason .. it’s not such a great film but good for wasting it on practice shots.. will report on this later 😌

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I didn't know the FM2(n) can do TTL flash and AE.

I had two FM3A before, one of which had the FM2's focusing screen. That was darker than the FM3A's K3 screen. And it had blackouts on the split screen too. Everyone's different but I found that a bit annoying. One thing I do like.a lot about the FM3A is the exposure lock button. I use that frequently. It's of course possible to meter, recompose and adjust speed/aperture but to be able to lock exposure is handy, for me at least. I also find the mechanical shutter useful on a fully electronic camera. In any event, this is all just opinion. I'm sure the OP will be very happy with the FM2. It's a great camera. 

 

13 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

I have a lot of Nikons from F2, F3, F5, FM, FM2, Fm3a, FE, FE2 and so on. The most versatile camera with the best value for money is the FE2, in my opinion.

Shutter up to 1/4000, 1/250 flash sync, TTL-flash (even with newer flashes), AE-Mode, Long Auto-Exposures possible. So in general everything that a Fm3a does.

The FM3a is very expensive, and the additional mechanical shutter mode is hardly ever used. The FEs and FE2s are very reliable, so in real life

the lack of a mechanical shutter is not really important.

 

[Lux50]

Good choice on the FM2!👍 I rate Portra 400 at ISO 250 and really like the results it delivers.

[Fotoklaus]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb philipus:

That's a lovely looking camera, congratulations. And great choice of lens too. In case you haven't found it before this is a good site for quick reviews of lenses to find the "good versions" of them, and this is a good site to check serial numbers to find the "good" versions of the lenses.

I hope we get to see you in the I Like Film thread later. All film cameras are welcome there.

Philip

I didn't know the FM2(n) can do TTL flash and AE.

I had two FM3A before, one of which had the FM2's focusing screen. That was darker than the FM3A's K3 screen. And it had blackouts on the split screen too. Everyone's different but I found that a bit annoying. One thing I do like.a lot about the FM3A is the exposure lock button. I use that frequently. It's of course possible to meter, recompose and adjust speed/aperture but to be able to lock exposure is handy, for me at least. I also find the mechanical shutter useful on a fully electronic camera. In any event, this is all just opinion. I'm sure the OP will be very happy with the FM2. It's a great camera. 

 

The FE2 can do AE and TTL Flash, not the FM2n. The Screen of the FM3a is a bit brighter, that's right.

 

[aksclix]

7 hours ago, philipus said:

hope we get to see you in the I Like Film thread later

Hope so too.. I’d be thrilled to have my first ever film image posted here.. don’t know if I have any prints from what I captured 25 years ago.. 😀

[Stuart Richardson]

16 hours ago, 250swb said:

I've taught photography to beginners and the key rule is to limit potential mistakes and variables to one at a time so they can be learned from, not to look for new ways to make mistakes or combine variables to make even more exotic variables and even more baffling mistakes.

I think the only advise a beginner needs is 'read what it says on the label', some techie boffin has gone to a lot of trouble to make sure the product works, opinions come way later.

As a photography teacher and lab owner, I agree with this too. ISO is not as fluid by any stretch with film as it is with digital. If you are controlling the process from end to end yourself, then you can be a bit more flexible, but departing more than a stop or so from the box speed generally has a negative impact on your results. Certainly don't push or pull slide film...it is hard enough to find a lab that even takes slide film these days, let alone one that will provide a stable push/pull run for it.

The exception to this would be that a lot of photographers choose to rate their color negative film at about 1/3rd to 1 full stop slower than box speed, and this can be helpful to keep the grain lower and density high enough. It is not required, but it is not a bad idea in principle. In general, however, I think it is best to start off with box speed for most films, and if that does not get the results you need, then start to experiment. But it is better to start off with as few variables as possible, otherwise it is hard to learn what is actually going on.

I would also stick with good, reliable and high quality films like Kodak Tri-X, Tmax, and Portra, Ilford HP5, FP4, Delta or Fuji Provia. There are some decent films out there, but if you leave the big three of Kodak, Fuji and Ilford, quality can take a steep dive at times. Again...best to limit your variables to start. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[andrew01]

The FM2N is a great choice.  The K2 focussing screen is more than bright enough in my opinion.  Usually there is a trade-off as screens are made brighter, they have less texture that reduces the ability to focus on the ground glass.

For me the FM3A is a silly price. It is the same price as an R6.2 which is a far better camera in my opinion.  I don’t like the aesthetics of the FM3a either. It has the ugly modern Nikon font which doesn’t suit the lines of the camera at all.

If buying used Nikon Ais lenses be sure to check that the grease on the focussing helicoids has not dried up causing a very loose focusing action. I have had this problem on 100% of the Ais lenses I own.  In the Ais era Nikon used a poor quality grease on the helicoids.  I have not seen this problem in any other brand lenses of the same age. It is an expensive service and after service I have had mixed success with the accuracy of the infinity calibration.  My next F mount purchase is going to be a brand new Voigtlander 40mm f2.

[Fotoklaus]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb andrew01:

For me the FM3A is a silly price. It is the same price as an R6.2 which is a far better camera in my opinion.  I don’t like the aesthetics of the FM3a either. It has the ugly modern Nikon font which doesn’t suit the lines of the camera at all.

Or maybe the R6.2 was just a simple, ever overpriced camera with a 1/2000 Shutter which came 20 Years too late. But yes: FM3a and R6.2 are more of a collectors item rather than

an everyday camera. Perhaps both overpriced nowadays.

[aksclix]

4 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

As a photography teacher and lab owner, I agree with this too. ISO is not as fluid by any stretch with film as it is with digital. If you are controlling the process from end to end yourself, then you can be a bit more flexible, but departing more than a stop or so from the box speed generally has a negative impact on your results. Certainly don't push or pull slide film...it is hard enough to find a lab that even takes slide film these days, let alone one that will provide a stable push/pull run for it.

The exception to this would be that a lot of photographers choose to rate their color negative film at about 1/3rd to 1 full stop slower than box speed, and this can be helpful to keep the grain lower and density high enough. It is not required, but it is not a bad idea in principle. In general, however, I think it is best to start off with box speed for most films, and if that does not get the results you need, then start to experiment. But it is better to start off with as few variables as possible, otherwise it is hard to learn what is actually going on.

I would also stick with good, reliable and high quality films like Kodak Tri-X, Tmax, and Portra, Ilford HP5, FP4, Delta or Fuji Provia. There are some decent films out there, but if you leave the big three of Kodak, Fuji and Ilford, quality can take a steep dive at times. Again...best to limit your variables to start. 

Thanks Stuart! Am sticking with box speed .. won’t risk ruining a whole roll on account of mixed ISOs

i saw somewhere the box color indicates the temperature of the golem or something? So I was no in favor of the Fuji for that reason.. is that not true? Don’t want greenish looking images 

[pippy]

4 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

...Certainly don't push or pull slide film...it is hard enough to find a lab that even takes slide film these days, let alone one that will provide a stable push/pull run for it...

Really, Stuart? Ah, well; that's a pity. I had no idea things had changed quite so drastically and I'm sorry to hear it.

I'm probably very spoilt here in London as there is still a choice from more than a dozen labs which specialise in E6 processing but I do realise that such might not be anything like the case anywhere outside the capital. Certainly the four labs which I used regularly up to 2007 (2 x Ceta and 2 x Metro) have each been closed for a decade or so.

Philip.

[Stuart Richardson]

Golem? Not sure what you are referring to...Fuji makes excellent film. Provia is in my opinion the best slide film...lovely, somewhat neutral colors, but good saturation without being overdone. Most of those old criticisms were grounded in racism or nationalism...Kodak and Fuji films are different, but they are both absolutely top notch. If you want good color, the most important thing you can do is get fresh film and have it developed at a good lab. Old film is the film that gives the most color shifts and low end labs with old chemicals will make the colors look bad.

The pics below are shot on Provia 100F on my Mamiya. I developed myself with the Tetenal 3 bath e6 kit. No green casts...

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Doc Henry]

Hi , I agree with 250wb , Philipus , Stuart ..... and  I add the film is magical for the color , for the rendering , for the relief , for the Beauty

Digital before I have been full of film for about ten years , I am developing , I do enlargements and it is an exciting hobby.

For film , try a Portra 400 ...   agree with you that some Fuji film has a "greenish" background.

and please post your photos in "I like Film"thread"

Best H

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Doc Henry

[Stuart Richardson]

2 minutes ago, pippy said:

Really, Stuart? Ah, well; that's a pity. I had no idea things had changed quite so drastically and I'm sorry to hear it.

I'm probably very spoilt here in London as there is still a choice from more than a dozen labs which specialise in E6 processing but I do realise that such might not be anything like the case anywhere outside the capital. Certainly the four labs which I used regularly up to 2007 (2 x Ceta and 2 x Metro) have each been closed for a decade or so.

Philip.

There is no commercial e6 in my entire country...except in my own darkroom and I do not have the machines to do a volume run. And I think in the best of times most slides did not push very well, except for special films like Provia 400X. London and New York...well, they are London and New York.