Starter but capable film camera for 2022?

[aksclix]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello film shooters!

Another conversation from this forum led me here.. I used a friend’s Minolta film camera about 25 years ago and remember nothing about it.. not even the model.. I am interested in jumping onto the film bandwagon and looking for advice on getting a film camera that is

- easier to adapt to coming from the digital world of photography for over 15 years… (yes, I am spoiled by a lot of new tech across different brands!) I want to like it the first time I use it and not get frustrated by it.. 
- this is a Leica forum but if there is a recommendation for another brand, I would love that too..

- image quality is very important to me.. I want to be wow’d by the final developed image.. does the film roll matter as well or just the camera? 

- 35mm or medium format? 
- reliable place to buy used film gear? 
 

Anything else I missed?
 

Thank you in advance! 😌

Edited January 21, 2022 by aksclix

[malligator]

What's your budget and what lenses do you already own?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[aksclix]

Budget  ~3k including 1 lens to begin with.. 

I don’t have any Leica M lenses.. just a voigtlander 40mm f/1.2

but I can make some funds available later this year.. so I am open to getting a good starter and then trading it with a better one later this year 

[aksclix]

I do have canon/Zeiss  ef glasses like

the 85 f/1.2 and the otus 55 f/1.4 if that opens up some options

 

+ Nikon manual focus 58mm f/1.2

Edited January 21, 2022 by aksclix

[malligator]

Based on the discussion that prompted this question, and your budget, I'd say maybe a Nikon F6. They were discontinued in 2018 so they have all the modern conveniences--autofocus with Nikon's latest SLR lenses, matrix metering, exposure compensation, TTL flash, and 5.5 fps.

It's everything you're used to...but with film.

[aksclix]

12 minutes ago, malligator said:

Based on the discussion that prompted this question, and your budget, I'd say maybe a Nikon F6. They were discontinued in 2018 so they have all the modern conveniences--autofocus with Nikon's latest SLR lenses, matrix metering, exposure compensation, TTL flash, and 5.5 fps.

It's everything you're used to...but with film.

Oh… didn’t know the F6 was that recent.. will check it out..

 I’d love to have some conveniences of today’s tech but not majority of them.. don’t need high fps, manual focusing is OK as long as someone with a slightly bad eyesight can do fine without the focus peaking advantage.. basically, as long as the controls are straight forward and simple enough I think that’s enough.. which is where a Leica might be good.. how does the R series compare to the M?

 

[mediumformula]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I started film photography in the late 90s on a Canon AE-1 and a 50mm lens.  I think this was a great set-up to learn on and can still be had for very cheap.  I still often shoot a Canon F1-New (the pro-version of the AE1) and a 50mm prime lens. 

[Brancbūth]

2 hours ago, aksclix said:

- image quality is very important to me.. I want to be wow’d by the final developed image.. does the film roll matter as well or just the camera? 

Definitely choose a camera body that best suits your shooting style, because the body itself has absolutely no effect on image quality, only on the shooting “experience.” Whether you shoot with a Leica IIIa, a Leica M6, a Leica R9, a Pentax K1000, or a Nikon F6, only the lens and the film stock will affect image quality/attributes.

54 minutes ago, aksclix said:

.. which is where a Leica might be good.. how does the R series compare to the M?

 

Totally depends on whether you prefer an SLR or a rangefinder for focusing. An SLR (R series or Leicaflex SL/SL2) will show you the image, in terms of framing, exactly as it will appear on the developed negative because you’re looking directly through the lens (think “live view”). You’ll have a focusing prism to help you nail manual focus, but the image is generally a bit dimmer in an SLR viewfinder, depending on the focusing screen (the “ground glass” that allows you to view and focus the image).

 

With the M series, you’ve got rangefinder focusing. The image in the viewfinder is an approximation of the actual framing, because you’re not looking through the lens, but rather the viewfinder window. When looking through the viewfinder, you’ll have two separate images— the image straight through the viewfinder window, and a second “ghost” image that you’ll match up using your lens’s focusing ring in order to achieve focus. This takes practice. The image will generally be brighter when looking through a rangefinder, compared to an SLR.

2 hours ago, aksclix said:

- 35mm or medium format?

Absolutely a matter of personal preference. Think M43 vs APS-C vs full-frame vs medium format. All have their place. You choose based on your shooting style and needs.

54 minutes ago, aksclix said:

basically, as long as the controls are straight forward and simple enough I think that’s enough.. which is where a Leica might be good..

If you’re looking to go all-in on a Leica, definitely go for it, but if you’re just dipping your toe into film and looking for simplicity, there are numerous affordable fully-manual cameras of arguably equal reliability and quality to a Leica. I would second the above suggestion of an AE-1, or a Pentax K1000, or a Nikon F2 or FM/FM2. All excellent cameras. All still readily available and serviceable as far as I know.

 

 

*edit: I’m now realizing that I’m probably still “ignored” by this user. Oh well.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Brancbūth

[aksclix]

7 minutes ago, Brancbūth said:

*edit: I’m now realizing that I’m probably still “ignored” by this user. Oh well.

not anymore.. moving on from a silly incident.. extreme sleep deprivation is partially to be blamed but not making a mountain of a mole hill anymore.. 

thanks for the inputs.. 
I think it maybe wise to start with an F6 or something.. maybe a Pentax 645N? I've got a 645 120mm macro lens that I used with my 645z which I no longer have.. 
Since I want good IQ, I'll go for a 35mm or a MF.. 
I have NEVER used a rangefinder either so that will be a big learning curve... will try and master one thing at first.. 
checked out some videos on film processing.. that's too complex for me..  with the current situation around the world though, I may still have some time to try doing all of that at home.. 

[aksclix]

18 minutes ago, mediumformula said:

I started film photography in the late 90s on a Canon AE-1 and a 50mm lens.  I think this was a great set-up to learn on and can still be had for very cheap.  I still often shoot a Canon F1-New (the pro-version of the AE1) and a 50mm prime lens. 

will check that too.. better to look at stuff people are using, even today.. 

[oldwino]

If you can deal with manual focusing, a Nikon FM2 is a good reliable camera, and the Nikon AI lenses are very good and very reasonable priced (especially when compared to Leica). My FM kit, with 24mm, 35mm , 55mm and 135mm lenses, all in excellent condition, cost me less to buy than a used Leica M film body. 

[Brancbūth]

26 minutes ago, aksclix said:

not anymore.. moving on from a silly incident.. extreme sleep deprivation is partially to be blamed but not making a mountain of a mole hill anymore.. 

thanks for the inputs.. 
I think it maybe wise to start with an F6 or something.. maybe a Pentax 645N? I've got a 645 120mm macro lens that I used with my 645z which I no longer have.. 
Since I want good IQ, I'll go for a 35mm or a MF.. 
I have NEVER used a rangefinder either so that will be a big learning curve... will try and master one thing at first.. 
checked out some videos on film processing.. that's too complex for me..  with the current situation around the world though, I may still have some time to try doing all of that at home.. 

My comment in that thread certainly read as mean-spirited, so apologies for that.

The Nikon F6 is definitely going to feel familiar in some ways, though some of the features may feel pretty dated. Although they made the F6 up until 2020, it actually came out in 2004, so it’s still pretty old tech. The autofocus module from the F6 was the same one used on the 12.4MP Nikon DX2 from ‘04, I believe.

You might even want to look at an F4 or F5.

I can’t recommend the Pentax 645, as I haven’t personally used it, nor have I heard much about it. I’ve heard great things about the Mamiya 645 and Contax 645, though— FWIW. I used a Mamiya RB67 for a year or so, but for me, it was too cumbersome. I’ve found that I really prefer 35mm, and as discreet/compact a camera as possible.

As far as developing, it can seem pretty involved, but once you have all the supplies and everything is “in its right place,” it become familiar pretty quickly. I will say that temperature control is the biggest issue I’ve battled with home processing. Once you find a consistent way to manage that, you’re golden.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Brancbūth

[aksclix]

9 minutes ago, oldwino said:

If you can deal with manual focusing, a Nikon FM2 is a good reliable camera, and the Nikon AI lenses are very good and very reasonable priced (especially when compared to Leica). My FM kit, with 24mm, 35mm , 55mm and 135mm lenses, all in excellent condition, cost me less to buy than a used Leica M film body. 

I hated manual focusing with HEAVY lenses on the already heavy S body but with lighter gear, I can handle manual focusing.. but it will depend on how well I can see thru the dated viewfinders.. unknown territory for me.. 
Nikon might make sense given I have that f1.2 lens.. also the 645N looks like a great option.. 
will checkout the FM2 as well.. ergo seems like an issue with that for me at the moment.. BUT, with film I won't be handholding it for very long anyway.. so it may not be an issue at all. 
 

[aksclix]

13 minutes ago, Brancbūth said:

My comment in that thread certainly read as mean-spirited, so apologies for that.

thanks.. it was a sensitive subject driven by too much passion!!  
 

I like the bulk of F5 AND I see one on CL locally.. might check it out.. 
I've used the 645z for over a year so it maybe easier to pick up a slightly familiar system.. 

will see about home development.. not sure if I could have a dedicated place for that.. moreover, I probably won't be doing as much as some folks here so it may not even have a good ROI for me  

 

[armadsen]

I think the Nikon suggestions are good, but considering you said you have two EF mount lenses, you might look at newer (ie. 90s and later) Canon film SLRs too. There are lots of cheap ones, and higher end ones too. The most advanced was the EOS-1v, produced up until 2018.

[aksclix]

17 minutes ago, armadsen said:

I think the Nikon suggestions are good, but considering you said you have two EF mount lenses, you might look at newer (ie. 90s and later) Canon film SLRs too. There are lots of cheap ones, and higher end ones too. The most advanced was the EOS-1v, produced up until 2018.

Thanks.. that looks good.. 

[logan2z]

You've already received some great suggestions, but I'd add my vote for something like the Nikon FM as a good starter film camera.  It's less expensive than the FM2/FM2N and is essentially the same camera.  Nikon AI lenses are good quality and very inexpensive too.  You can probably buy an FM in good condition with a 50mm AI lens for about $150.  If it turns out that film is something you want to keep doing, then you could consider a Leica film camera like an M4 or M6 (if you want a meter) down the road.  But since you don't have any M glass at the moment, it might be better to start out inexpensively with a Japanese SLR.

Home developing of film sounds more difficult than it is.  I've only started developing at home recently (I've been using a lab for the last few years but making prints in my home darkroom) and have already been getting better results than I was getting from a lab.  But, again, I'd keep it simple at first and maybe find a decent lab that you can use for developing while you get the hang of shooting film.  One step at a time...

[aksclix]

20 minutes ago, logan2z said:

You can probably buy an FM in good condition with a 50mm AI lens for about $150.  If it turns out that film is something you want to keep doing, then you could consider a Leica film camera like an M4 or M6 (if you want a meter) down the road.  But since you don't have any M glass at the moment, it might be better to start out inexpensively with a Japanese SLR.

right!! so far I am finding that the f5, f6 and eos 1v are leading my choices.. found an FM2 on CL as well.. interested in the 645n as well.. should get one real soon! 

PS: thanks to your trigger, I am shopping for film now.. *smh*  would've taken the plunge at some point though. 

[logan2z]

11 minutes ago, aksclix said:

PS: thanks to your trigger, I am shopping for film now..

Mission accomplished 😉

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

If you are looking at newer SLR bodies from either Nikon or Canon they are often limited to more expensive and heavier modern AF lenses or various functions are crippled if using older lenses. This is partially why you keep hearing the word 'FM2' mentioned, a simple manual camera that works with a vast range of manual focus AI or AI-S designated Nikkor lenses. These lenses are in abundant supply and they are top quality, and the prices for Nikon equipment means you can build a large outfit very quickly allowing you to experiment with focal lengths and maybe even a second body so you can shoot colour and B&W at the same time. 

If you want to try medium format many tend to be 'system cameras' needing various other pieces of kit to make them work how you'd like, such as needing spare film backs, extra lenses of course, a couple of different viewfinders maybe, a tripod. Unless you already know what you like I would keep it simple and buy a TLR Yashicamat 124G from a reputable dealer, it has a top quality lens and the negatives will make you appreciate the big difference between MF and 35mm.

You'll soon get a feeling for what you like, maybe then think about a Leica or a Hasselblad for the experience, but it's already been mentioned, the film and the lens are the key things and the body is very secondary to the image.