Leica M11: A Revolution – Review by Elmar S.

[Rollin]

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On 1/19/2022 at 1:43 AM, elmars said:

I am very happy that my work was useful for You and perhaps some others. And no, I have no settings for the M11. The colors look so good to me that I felt no need for this for the first time with a new M.

@elmars With the M11 files in LrC are you using the profile that is embedded in the DNG, Adobe Standard, or some other one?

[Rollin]

52 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

If you want to learn just how revolutionary the M11 is, watch this tech talk.  The technology in this camera and its image making capabilities are simply staggering. 

After watching this deep dive into the M11, all I can say is the M11 is well worth its asking price.  Its performance is mind blowing - and performance is what we are paying for.

 

Couple interesting points I heard from Jesko von Oeynhausen, Leica Director Product Division Photo, during this live chat:

• Sounds like the Standard Profile in LR is Adobe's M11 profile and not a generic profile.
• He suggests using Adobe Standard Profile for high ISO as it is less saturated and produces lower "ground noise" than the embedded M11 profile.
• Says the shutter response is about the same as the M10 when using the mechanical shutter, however, if I heard him correctly, there is more lag for the first exposure when using the full electronic shutter.
• Rangefinder is the same as the M10.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

If you want to learn just how revolutionary the M11 is, watch this tech talk.  The technology in this camera and its image making capabilities are simply staggering. 

After watching this deep dive into the M11, all I can say is the M11 is well worth its asking price.  Its performance is mind blowing - and performance is what we are paying for.

 

Lots of new information in that talk. A summary of key points is here:

 

[elmars]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Rollin:

With the M11 files in LrC are you using the profile that is embedded in the DNG, Adobe Standard, or some other one?

I always used Adobe Color. It was very early implemented in LR.

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Rollin:

• Sounds like the Standard Profile in LR is Adobe's M11 profile and not a generic profile.
• He suggests using Adobe Standard Profile for high ISO as it is less saturated and produces lower "ground noise" than the embedded M11 profile.

Standard profile is Adobe Color as always. Only if there is no Adobe Color profile available LR takes the embedded (generic) profile from the camera. If You like the embedded profile better You can switch to it easily on every photo or make a preset to do this automatically.

Standard profile in LR is since about two years Adobe Color. The former standard profile was Adobe Standard. Adobe Standard has less contrast and is therefor less saturated and the colors are a bit different. Skin tone renders better in Adobe Color. The embedded M11 profile is something in between. Color is more saturated than in Adobe Standard, comparable to Adobe Color, but the colors are slightly different. (I didn´t do a deeper analysis; You can do it Yourself by switching between the profiles in develop mode.) The contrast of the embedded profile is higher but not as high as Adobe Color.

I would go for Adobe color. Adobe profiles are more complex than the embedded profiles as far as I know and because of this they are the best starting point for all different light and color situations. Apart from this it offers the best colors to me. If it is very contrasty or if there is too much color I switch to Adobe Standard.

[Łëïčä]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:00 PM, elmars said:

Now Leica sacrificed it knowing that the nostalgic will cry about it.

I’m not crying about the baseplate. I’m crying that the bottom now looks so effing ugly. 
 

if you’re going to replace something so sleek and beautiful then do it with something just as beautiful. Functional doesn’t have to be ugly. 

[Łëïčä]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:00 PM, elmars said:

the M10 sensor, but a slight lack of pop remained in RAW. This could of course be handled very well in post processing.

“Slight lack of pop that could be brought back easily in post”. 
 

so it’s not better it’s just a slight additional pop that you may or may not want in the raw and if you want it you can easily add it in later. 
 

hardly an upgrade… actually not an upgrade at all. Sounds like the M10 sensor gave you a raw that is more appealing to most people for editing and if you want more you can always add more but it’s not as easy to take it away. 

[Łëïčä]

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On 1/13/2022 at 9:00 PM, elmars said:

I think the M11 sensor is slightly but not significantly better,

And this is all a revolution? 😅 oh man. The hype around new gear is hilarious 

[mon10a]

1 hour ago, Łëïčä said:

I’m not crying about the baseplate. I’m crying that the bottom now looks so effing ugly. 
 

if you’re going to replace something so sleek and beautiful then do it with something just as beautiful. Functional doesn’t have to be ugly. 

By any chance, are you CJZ on the dpreview site? Just curious.

[Łëïčä]

39 minutes ago, mon10a said:

CJZ

What’s CJZ? 

[ravinj]

CJZ. Cordell Jigsaw Productions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CJZ

[mon10a]

2 hours ago, Łëïčä said:

What’s CJZ? 

Thought so. 

[LUF Admin]

Short notice from the admin: User Łëïčä is banned. Was the – uhm let me count – 4th account of a banned member.

Andreas

[sebben]

The biggest troll 😈 

[Alberti]

On 1/20/2022 at 2:43 AM, hdmesa said:

 

The M11 shutter behavior may be new to Leica M users, but it's how every other mirrorless camera's mechanical shutter works – stays open to meter, then closes before starting the exposure. 

I do think it would be a good idea for Leica to add EFCS with a firmware update unless there is a hardware limitation that prohibits it.

 

I agree. On my Lumix S5 there is a mech and electr shutter. And it has IBIS. Somehow, the pictures with the mech shutter (for me) have blur, unfocussed; while when I select Electr/black, I get sharp pictures. So yes, EFCS "designed to eliminate camera shake originating from the shutter mechanism of the camera (commonly known as “shutter shock”)." [In sofar I have not laid my hands on an M11 yet so my remarks are baseless sorry.]

Anyway, with the S5 I now use the "EFCS-option", where the exposure is started electronically and ended mechanically by the rear curtain shutter giving a black frame at the end for noise reduction.  But do note, the review linked above also says, there are drawbacks: " you might see distortion in bokeh when using large apertures, and in some cases'. I have seen terrible results on this S5 with some lenses . . . (most pronounced the falling away of corners, with the 40mm F2). Ooops. You get what you haven't wished for.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Alberti

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, sebben said:

The biggest troll 😈 

I just spoke to my sports book in Vegas and the over/under is now sitting at 6.5 accounts.  Needless to say, I took the over, as I seriously doubt this is over.

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Alberti said:

I agree. On my Lumix S5 there is a mech and electr shutter. And it has IBIS. Somehow, the pictures with the mech shutter (for me) have blur, unfocussed; while when I select Electr/black, I get sharp pictures. So yes, EFCS "designed to eliminate camera shake originating from the shutter mechanism of the camera (commonly known as “shutter shock”)." [In sofar I have not laid my hands on an M11 yet so my remarks are baseless sorry.]

Anyway, with the S5 I now use the "EFCS-option", where the exposure is started electronically and ended mechanically by the rear curtain shutter giving a black frame at the end for noise reduction.  But do note, the review linked above also says, there are drawbacks: " you might see distortion in bokeh when using large apertures, and in some cases'. I have seen terrible results on this S5 with some lenses . . . (most pronounced the falling away of corners, with the 40mm F2). Ooops. You get what you haven't wished for.

 

Yes, if Leica does EFCS, let's hope they do it like Fujifilm and not like the rudimentary implementation Canon has. Fujifilm lets you have a shutter mode that will automatically switch from EFCS to Mechanical above 1/600 sec. (to avoid bokeh artifacts and uneven exposure) then will switch to ES after the mechanical shutter maxes out. Leica already has the automatic switching to ES, so I would imagine their implementation of EFCS would mirror Fujifilm's.

[Foxtwo]

14 hours ago, LUF Admin said:

Short notice from the admin: User Łëïčä is banned. Was the – uhm let me count – 4th account of a banned member.

Andreas

Short response if you will indulge-

The folks here are universally decent- gentlemen and gentleladies if you will, who are interested in elegant tools that make elegant images. I assume that they have worked hard and long to be able to afford them.

This forum is a breath of fresh air. Thank you for taking action to keep it that way.

[Herr Barnack]

11 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

I just spoke to my sports book in Vegas and the over/under is now sitting at 6.5 accounts.  Needless to say, I took the over, as I seriously doubt this is over.

To quote Charlie Harper from the TV series Two And A Half Men:  "It's not whether you win or lose - it's whether you beat the spread."  😎

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Herr Barnack]

2 hours ago, Foxtwo said:

The folks here are universally decent- gentlemen and gentleladies if you will, who are interested in elegant tools that make elegant images. I assume that they have worked hard and long to be able to afford them.

This forum is a breath of fresh air.

I would agree with that. 

The majority of members here are not robber barons who tool around town in gold plated Rolls Royces.  We are fortunate people of normal means who find a way or make a way to acquire the elegant tools that Leica makes available for us with which to pursue our passion of image making.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Tailwagger]

5 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

The majority of members here are not robber barons who tool around town in gold plated Rolls Royces.

And even the minority is generally content with nothing more ostentatious than a Mulsanne with ostrich leather interior. 😃