Leica 35 Summicron vs Voigtlander 35/1.2 III vs Voigtlander 35 Ultron II

[Steve Miller]

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Hi,

I'm looking for a manual focus 35mm lens to use with my M10 and SL2-S. I've narrowed it down to three lenses as noted in the title of this thread. I've considered the latest 35 Summilux but it's out of my price range, which has a cap of around $2800 (clearly this means I'm looking at a used 35 Cron). I've tested the 35 Cron and the Voigt 35 Ultron II. I haven't used the Voigt 35/1.2 III but I do have the Voigt 50/1.2 which is very similar in size and which I find to be an outstanding lens. Here's my quick summary of the three:

• Leica 35 Summicron (latest version, ASPH v2): lightweight, FANTASTIC focus tab/ring, good IQ but likely the least sharp of the three, excellent bokeh
• Voigtlander 35 Ultron II: even lighter, stiff focus tab/ring, excellent IQ, good bokeh
• Voigtlander 35/1.2 III: Note: since I haven't used this lens, I am relying on online reviews... Heavier (but at 330g, not ridiculously heavy), very smooth focus ring (tighter than the Cron but since it's not a tab, it's feels excellent in use), excellent IQ with sharp center and mid-frame at f/1.7, good bokeh. I know from experience that when shot from f/1.7 to f/4, my Voigt 50/1.2 hits the sweet spot between being clinical and vintage/soft. Based on the reviews, it sounds like the CV 35/1.2 III is very similar to my 50/1.2

So that's my rational summary of all three lenses. I'd love to hear if others can confirm or have different views on these lenses. Better yet, I'd love to see samples if anyone is so inclined.

If my assessment is correct, the rational thing to do is to save my money and buy one of the Voigts. However, my 28 and 50 are both Voigts and I know that I'll eventually want to get one Leica lens in this moderate wide to normal range. I have the 90 Elmarit which I use on the SL2-S and absolutely love it (the image quality and shooting experience). So I'm debating going with my heart and buying a very lightly used 35 Cron, preferably in silver. Yes, I know that adds to the weight but since my M10 is silver, it seems like the perfect pairing.

Okay, I think that covers it. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,

Steve

 

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[poli]

Both the silver or black 35 summicron asph V2 weigh the same. 🙂 So that should not stop you from buying the silver version. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by poli
Typo

[Steve Miller]

3 minutes ago, poli said:

Both the silver or black 3G summicron asph V2 weigh the same. 🙂 So that should not stop you from buying the silver version. 

Thanks, Poli.

I’ve seen conflicting statements about the weight of the black vs silver. B&H has the silver weighing about 85g more than the black though I’ve seen user comments saying they’re the same. Either way, the weight won’t deter me from getting the silver if I choose the 35 Cron. 

Steve

[spydrxx]

You know you want the Leica, so put thoughts of alternates on hold and save for the Leica. Personally I've been there with ta Leica 35 Summaron (over 30 years), a 35 Summicron and a 35 Summilux. Liked them all, Summaron the most, the others were too sharp for my taste, but they certainly were diminutive. However today I use both a 35 CV Color-Skopar and a 35 CV Nokton. Don't think I'll go back to the Leicas as these work well for me.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

Most modern M mount lenses are optically very good, no matter the manufacture.  You probably know that already.  I owned the original 35mm Summicron ASPH (version I?) when it first came out 20 years ago, and more recently the first 35mm f/2 Ultron with the stick focusing thing.  These are just my experiences and preferences.  Both lenses very sharp, producing clinical and clean images.  My impression, the current Voigtlanders possibly better made.  In fact, broke the Summicron Asph. and the tech who fixed it bemoaned modern Leica lenses as full of plastic.  That is what broke on mine, some inner plastic piece, allowing the aperture ring to move when it shouldn't.  The 4th generation Summicron also had its' issues too, but I know nothing about the current lineup.  Don't own either lens anymore, as I largely shoot B&W film and prefer the older, non-asphericals for that medium.  I've heard great things about the 35/1.2 but practical considerations of size and weight are a concern for an everyday user.  To me it seems more like a speciality lens.  Probably can't go wrong with any of them.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[lct]

I have no experience with CV 35/1.2 nor Leica 35/2 asph v2 but i struggle to find any softness in the v1 of the later. It is a sharp lens at all apertures and so is the CV 35/2. The CV is significantly smaller so i use it preferably on a Leica CL. IQ wise both lenses are very close with a modern rendition and bokeh being a bit softer on the Leica.

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[Steve Miller]

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Thanks everyone for your responses.

Spydrxx, you hit on my worry. If I know that I want a Leica 35 or 50 at some point, why not now?

TheBestSLIsALeicaflex, as far as image quality and overall look and feel for the resulting photos, I think you’re right. I can’t go wrong with any of them. Ugh!

lct, you bring up an interesting option. The CV Ultron and Leica Cron are closest to each other (both tiny, both f/2). I liked the styling of the Ultron II but didn’t enjoy the stiff focusing tab. Everything I’ve read says the Ultron version I is the same optically, with the only difference being the physical cosmetics of the lens. I’m not sure if I’d like the focus knob on Ver I, but I know you can unscrew it. I also hear that the focus ring isn’t as stiff. That could be a good option.

First world problems for sure. Thanks again.

Steve

[kivis]

Same dilemma. Went with a black on brass Voigtlander 35 Ultron II. Extremely happy with my choice.

[Steve Miller]

12 minutes ago, kivis said:

Same dilemma. Went with a black on brass Voigtlander 35 Ultron II. Extremely happy with my choice.

Thanks. You don’t find the focus tab to be too stiff?

[lct]

18 minutes ago, Steve Miller said:

lct, you bring up an interesting option. The CV Ultron and Leica Cron are closest to each other (both tiny, both f/2). I liked the styling of the Ultron II but didn’t enjoy the stiff focusing tab. Everything I’ve read says the Ultron version I is the same optically, with the only difference being the physical cosmetics of the lens. I’m not sure if I’d like the focus knob on Ver I, but I know you can unscrew it. I also hear that the focus ring isn’t as stiff.

The CV 35/2 v1's focus "stick" was a bit stiff at opening the box but is perfectly smooth now. I have no experience with the focus tab of the CV 35/2 v2 but if it is like other CV ones i own, i find it a bit small for my taste. My favorite focus tab is that of the Leica but it is a matter of tastes obviously.

[Steve Miller]

1 hour ago, lct said:

The CV 35/2 v1's focus "stick" was a bit stiff at opening the box but is perfectly smooth now. I have no experience with the focus tab of the CV 35/2 v2 but if it is like other CV ones i own, i find it a bit small for my taste. My favorite focus tab is that of the Leica but it is a matter of tastes obviously.

Thanks!

[kivis]

2 hours ago, Steve Miller said:

Thanks. You don’t find the focus tab to be too stiff?

At first but it loosen up in a short time. Now it is like butter.

[Dennis]

I have the Summicron asph v1 and the 35/1.2III. I can't tell you about Ultron II. After trying about 10 different 35s, the Summicron is still my preferred choice by default.

It's a different monster, but have you considered the CV 35/1.4II MC? It's one the cheapest (or almost) but a unique terrific lens. You can get it along with another CV and save more money than just the Summicron. Just saying.

I know, I know, life is easy. But making the right choice could be very difficult.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Dennis

[Steve Miller]

12 hours ago, Dennis said:

I have the Summicron asph v1 and the 35/1.2III. I can't tell you about Ultron II. After trying about 10 different 35s, the Summicron is still my preferred choice by default.

It's a different monster, but have you considered the CV 35/1.4II MC? It's one the cheapest (or almost) but a unique terrific lens. You can get it along with another CV and save more money than just the Summicron. Just saying.

I know, I know, life is easy. But making the right choice could be very difficult.

Thanks for the suggestion, Dennis. I actually did just try the CV 35/1.4 MC II. I had heard it has a vintage type of look but found it to be too soft for my liking. On paper though, I thought it was a great solution.

Steve

[Dennis]

33 minutes ago, Steve Miller said:

Thanks for the suggestion, Dennis. I actually did just try the CV 35/1.4 MC II. I had heard it has a vintage type of look but found it to be too soft for my liking. On paper though, I thought it was a great solution.

Steve

I can bet you to find the difference at f8 on most 35. And many too at f/4. At 1.4 is very sharp in the center with a lovely glow. It's a unique hybrid lens.
I was using it at f/1.4, f/4, and f/8 only. Three different moods. That's why I think it is a must-have lens. I'd buy it even if it cost more. But I obviously adore its price tag. 🙂 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Dennis

[Steve Miller]

Just now, Dennis said:

I can bet you to find the difference at f8 on most 35. And many more at f/4. At 1.4 is very sharp in the center with a lovely glow. It's a unique hybrid lens.
I was using it at f/1.4, f/4, and f/8 only. Three different moods. That's why I think it is a must-have lens. I'd buy it even if it cost more. But I obviously adore its price tag. 🙂 

Hi Dennis,

Maybe I had a bad copy. I bought it and tried it out in typical low light situations that I normally shoot in and found the lens at f/1.4 and f/2 to be REALLY soft. Very mushy as opposed to having a glow.

I have two primary uses for a 35mm lens. The first is street where I have no doubt the Nokton f/1.4 MC II (or almost any small 35) would be great since I would normally be shooting at f/8 or f/11 (possibly f/5.6). However, equally important for me is indoors in low light where I would almost always be shooting at f/2 (and f/1.4 on a faster lens). For this half of my shooting, the Nokton didn't come anywhere my expectations. It was just too soft. I don't need clinically sharp, but I at least like to feel like I'm looking at an image that's in focus. I tried it on my M10 and SL2-S. It could very easily have been user error on my M10 but I'm quite confident I can nail focus with the SL2-S, e.g. I can easily focus my Leica 90 Elmarit using the SL2-S.

One positive thing, because of the incredible high ISO performance of the SL2-S and M10, I never really need to shoot with an aperture greater than f/2. Sure, I will shoot at f/1.2 or f/1.4 with my Voigt 50/1.2 for the effect, but I don't need it from the light gathering perspective. These two cameras are so good in low light, that I don't even think twice about shooting at ISO 12,500 and can go higher in some situations.

That's why two of my three choices for the 35mm lens are both "slower" f/2 lenses. I think I'll either end up going with my (irrational) gut and get a used 35 Cron or I may reconsider the 35 Ultron II. I tried the latter and found everything aside from the focus tab to be excellent. If as others are saying, the tab loosens up over time, then that may just do the trick. Ah, decisions, decisions.

Thanks again!

Steve

[oldwino]

Nice thing is, there is no really "wrong" solution!

[Dennis]

2 hours ago, Steve Miller said:

Maybe I had a bad copy.

Probably, maybe even you had a focus shift issue. It was a MC or SC version?

2 hours ago, Steve Miller said:

That's why two of my three choices for the 35mm lens are both "slower" f/2 lenses. I think I'll either end up going with my (irrational) gut and get a used 35 Cron or I may reconsider the 35 Ultron II. I tried the latter and found everything aside from the focus tab to be excellent. If as others are saying, the tab loosens up over time, then that may just do the trick. Ah, decisions, decisions.

I would say IMHO that Ultron II is the best commitment (for money). Some people find the bokeh at f/2 a bit swirling, which could be good or bad things for some. Also, consider that the MFD is 0.58mt. It could be an advantage for LV, but not as a focus memory position (cause we know that the focus tab all way to the left is 70cm, but it's not with the Ultron.) While the Summicron is my heart decision 🙂 

 

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[Simone_DF]

Basically you are in a situation where the head says Voigtlander, but the heart says Leica.

The good part is that whatever you pick, you have a winner.

[Steve Miller]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

Basically you are in a situation where the head says Voigtlander, but the heart says Leica.

The good part is that whatever you pick, you have a winner.

Exactly!