Leica 35 Summicron vs Voigtlander 35/1.2 III vs Voigtlander 35 Ultron II

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

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48 minutes ago, Steve Miller said:

Exactly!

In such a situation I would actually get both.  Use them side by side for a year and then make a determination which to keep, or whether to keep both.  Is the "Leica" name just branding or is there something there, even if it's only a subjective, emotional thing?  I mean they're hard assets, that may not lose much value in our inflationary times, and even if they do, just treat it as a rental fee.  They are similar but not identical.  I suspect at the end of the year you'll have a clear fave.

[CosmoM3]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:47 PM, Steve Miller said:

Leica 35 Summicron (latest version, ASPH v2): likely the least sharp of the three

 

What?

I've had and shot almost every 35mm under the sun include the three you've mentioned - this is the first time someone mentioned this?

[Product Details]

Complete Overview 35mm Leica M-Mount Lenses

35 mm F1.2 Nokton (Amazon | B&H) - 35 mm F1.4 Nokton II MC (Amazon | B&H) - 35 mm F1.5 Nokton (Amazon | B&H) - 35 mm F2.0 APO Lanthar (Amazon | B&H) - 35 mm F2.0 Ultron (Amazon) - 35 mm F2.0 Ultron II (Amazon | B&H) - 35 mm F2.5 Color Skopar P-Type (Amazon | B&H)

[Steve Miller]

On 1/12/2022 at 6:41 AM, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

In such a situation I would actually get both.  Use them side by side for a year and then make a determination which to keep, or whether to keep both.  Is the "Leica" name just branding or is there something there, even if it's only a subjective, emotional thing?  I mean they're hard assets, that may not lose much value in our inflationary times, and even if they do, just treat it as a rental fee.  They are similar but not identical.  I suspect at the end of the year you'll have a clear fave.

Good idea to test and compare, but from a dollar outlay perspective, a used silver 35 Summicron ($2700-$2800) is the max I want to spend right now. That wouldn't leave me room for another 35, even one that is relatively affordable like the two Voigts I mentioned. I'm sure if I buy the Leica, I'll know quickly whether I like the lens and if I consider it worth the premium price. Also, picking up a used 35 Cron, I'd see little downside in price depreciation if I decide it isn't worth it for me and sell it a few months later. 

Thanks again for your suggestion.

[Steve Miller]

10 minutes ago, CosmoM3 said:

What?

I've had and shot almost every 35mm under the sun include the three you've mentioned - this is the first time someone mentioned this?

CosmoM3, as I mentioned at the top, I don't have this lens but have tested it briefly and am primarily relying on online reviews and user comments (like yours) at present. Most of the reviews I have seen for the 35 Cron talk about the incredible build quality and the Leica "look", but I don't recall seeing any that highlight the lens being one of the sharper 35 lenses around. However, still I'm assuming that the latest Cron will be sharp enough for me (somewhere between clinically sharp and classic/vintage look).

Here's one of those reviews. I have no idea who Jack Takahashi is but he's not the only reviewer I've seen mention that the 35 Summicron is soft compared to lenses like the Voigt 35/1.2, 35/2 Ultron and 35/2 APO, let alone the Zeiss 35/1.4 (widely regarded as being one of the best M mount 35s...but at 380g is too heavy for me for this purpose).

https://jacktaka.com/leica-35mm-f2

I've also seen a bunch of YouTube reviews from Matt Osborne where he goes through a ton of Voigtlander, Zeiss and Leica lenses. Unlike most online reviewers, I find his photographs to be very compelling which helps as I'd much rather see how a lens works in real life than on focus charts.

Anyway, back to your original comment/question. It's great to hear that you think the 35 Summicron is very sharp. If you happen to have some images that you'd like to share, I'd love to see them.

Thanks for your comment.

Steve

[Erato]

@Steve Miller -- FYR.

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Summicron-M 35mm F2, V1, ELC, M10M

Edited January 14, 2022 by Erato
@Steve Miller

[Erato]

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Summicron 35mm F2 V1 LEITZ WETZLAR, M10M

[Steve Miller]

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6 hours ago, Erato said:

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Summicron 35mm F2 V1 LEITZ WETZLAR, M10M

Thanks for posting. Nice image...and dog!

Steve

[Keith (M)]

Took delivery of the 35mm Nokton III f1.2 about a year ago and have been very pleased with it. Solid-feel, well constructed, positive click-stops (unlike some of my M glass), relatively light -weight and compact (for a 35mm f1.2).  (Can't compare with the other two lenses in the thread title - my other 35's are a Summaron f2.8 and ZM Biogon f2.)

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VM 35mm Nokton III f1.2, M10M.

[Dennis]

I find the 35/1.2III a little flat, which it could be an advantage. I don't like much the SOOC files, but with slight PP no problem. Actually next week I will receive a ND 3 stops to try to shoot at 1.4 with bright light. We'll see.

I do prefer my Summicron asph v1

[Erato]

@DennisI've tested both of them and less like them while comparing with other lenses. Meanwhile, I figure out that there's a pincushion distortion(reference attached) as well. 

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[rramesh]

I have a Voigtlander 35 1.2 v2 and it's one of my favourite lenses. It's a little on the heavy side but it's a 1.2 lens and the image rendering is very nice. If you are not looking for this focal length there are many others.

The v3 is a newer one and a little lighter. Performance is almost identical.

This is a good review https://joerivanderkloet.com/cosina-voigtlander-nokton-351-2-asph-v2-review/

[Steve Miller]

8 hours ago, rramesh said:

I have a Voigtlander 35 1.2 v2 and it's one of my favourite lenses. It's a little on the heavy side but it's a 1.2 lens and the image rendering is very nice. If you are not looking for this focal length there are many others.

The v3 is a newer one and a little lighter. Performance is almost identical.

This is a good review https://joerivanderkloet.com/cosina-voigtlander-nokton-351-2-asph-v2-review/

Thanks, Ramchand and others.

As others have noted above, all of the lenses I'm considering are good and there is no wrong choice. I've read some excellent reviews by Sean Reid and also stopped in to B&H yesterday to see the lenses in hand. This may come as a surprise on a Leica forum, but the only lens I ruled out is the Leica. It's a pleasure to use and looks fantastic but for me, I don't see the benefits for a $2800 lens (used) that is 3x the price of the others.

While checking out Reid Reviews, I came across the humble Zeiss 35/2.8 Biogon. Then I tried it out in B&H. Wow. What a great little lens! Of course, it's 1-2 stops slower than the Voigts I'm considering but I love the form factor and all reviews I've seen show fantastic performance, image quality, and resolution. Someone (Dennis?) suggested buying two of the lenses. I think he meant the Summicron and one of the Voigts. After trying out the Zeiss, I'm very tempted to take this approach but with the Zeiss and one of the Voigts. Given that my primary use for this lens will be street photography, where I don't need a fast lens), I will likely get the Zeiss 35/2.8. If I find that I also want a sharper, more modern lens, I can then go with the CV 35 APO or if I decide that the extra 2+ stops is more desirable, I can get the CV 35/1.2 III.

What's great to see is how many high quality choices are available for m mount lenses.

Steve

[KFo]

1 hour ago, Steve Miller said:

Thanks, Ramchand and others.

As others have noted above, all of the lenses I'm considering are good and there is no wrong choice. I've read some excellent reviews by Sean Reid and also stopped in to B&H yesterday to see the lenses in hand. This may come as a surprise on a Leica forum, but the only lens I ruled out is the Leica. It's a pleasure to use and looks fantastic but for me, I don't see the benefits for a $2800 lens (used) that is 3x the price of the others.

While checking out Reid Reviews, I came across the humble Zeiss 35/2.8 Biogon. Then I tried it out in B&H. Wow. What a great little lens! Of course, it's 1-2 stops slower than the Voigts I'm considering but I love the form factor and all reviews I've seen show fantastic performance, image quality, and resolution. Someone (Dennis?) suggested buying two of the lenses. I think he meant the Summicron and one of the Voigts. After trying out the Zeiss, I'm very tempted to take this approach but with the Zeiss and one of the Voigts. Given that my primary use for this lens will be street photography, where I don't need a fast lens), I will likely get the Zeiss 35/2.8. If I find that I also want a sharper, more modern lens, I can then go with the CV 35 APO or if I decide that the extra 2+ stops is more desirable, I can get the CV 35/1.2 III.

What's great to see is how many high quality choices are available for m mount lenses.

Steve

Wait a minute!  I have the Zeiss 35/2.8.  I think finding something more acute is picking nits at the highest level.  Reid does a review with APO lenses and throws the Zeiss into that group. It is an interesting review and the Zeiss comes out really well in that crowd.

But really, the Zeiss is a fantastic lens, compact with awesome rendering.  I don't worry about the f/2.8 much with an M10-P I just crank up the ISO.

Edited January 19, 2022 by KFo

[Steve Miller]

3 minutes ago, KFo said:

Wait a minute!  I have the Zeiss 35/2.8.  I think finding something more acute is picking nits at the highest level.  Reid does a review with APO lenses and throws the Zeiss into that group. It is an interesting review and the Zeiss comes out really well in that crowd.

But really, the Zeiss is a fantastic lens, compact with awesome rendering.  I don't worry about the f/2.8 much with an M10-P I just crank up the ISO.

I agree! That review was very compelling! I don’t think twice about shooting my M10 at 12500 so the f/2.8 would rarely be an issue. I do love the CV 50/1.2 so if I ever feel that I want a similar lens to that in a 35, the CV 35/1.2 III should do the trick. In the meantime, I expect to pick up the Zeiss 35/2.8 Biogon. 

Steve