New MP rewind knob is difficult to turn

[jackbaty]

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After putting maybe a dozen rolls of film through my new MP, I have been wondering about the effort required to rewind the film. It takes a thumb-cramping amount of effort, in other words. I just put a roll through my M3 and the rewind mechanism is significantly smoother and easier. 

Is this something that will break in over time or is it something I'll just need to learn to live with? I assume it's not an actual malfunction, but if it is, now would be the time to have it looked at.

Thanks.

Edited January 1, 2022 by jackbaty

[LocalHero1953]

Have you flipped the rewind lever before trying to rewind? The little lever with 'R' next to it at about 10 o'clock from the lens as you look at it from the front?
Sorry if you know this, but it's worth checking!
I've never had problems rewinding film Ms. Or any film camera, for that matter, except for a Praktica STL2

Edited January 1, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[jackbaty]

Yes, I made sure the rewind lever was flipped. Good suggestion, though, thanks!

[jackbaty]

Another thing I've noticed with the rewind knob is that it's more difficult to pull up than the M3's. And sometimes it must be turned slightly or it will not come up all the way. It's like it gets stuck half way up. Not a huge problem, but it's a noticeable degradation when compared to my M3 that takes just a tiny amount of joy away from the experience of using the MP.

[250swb]

6 hours ago, jackbaty said:

Another thing I've noticed with the rewind knob is that it's more difficult to pull up than the M3's. And sometimes it must be turned slightly or it will not come up all the way. It's like it gets stuck half way up. Not a huge problem, but it's a noticeable degradation when compared to my M3 that takes just a tiny amount of joy away from the experience of using the MP.

 

6 hours ago, jackbaty said:

Another thing I've noticed with the rewind knob is that it's more difficult to pull up than the M3's. And sometimes it must be turned slightly or it will not come up all the way. It's like it gets stuck half way up. Not a huge problem, but it's a noticeable degradation when compared to my M3 that takes just a tiny amount of joy away from the experience of using the MP.

There is a clutch of sorts in the rewind knob shaft, this stops the film unwinding if you take the pressure of when rewinding the film. This soon loosens up and before long the clutch won't work, just as it may not work on your M3 so at the moment you may be comparing apples with oranges.

Edited January 1, 2022 by 250swb

[Pyrogallol]

Is it tight without a film in or just when actually rewinding a film?

[Hintsalae]

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Maybe mp just has stiffer friction brake in the take-up spool.

[jackbaty]

17 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Is it tight without a film in or just when actually rewinding a film?

That's a great question that I don't have an answer to because I'm a moron and never thought of checking. Good excuse to get through the current roll, though :). Thanks for the suggestion!

[a.noctilux]

Hello Jack,

two possibilities :

1 - a small bending of the rod, or some dirt

2 - the 'R' lever with some play on the linking device, this happened to me, so I needed to hold the R lever while rewinding as on my button M2

[Pyrogallol]

45 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Jack,

two possibilities :

1 - a small bending of the rod, or some dirt

2 - the 'R' lever with some play on the linking device, this happened to me, so I needed to hold the R lever while rewinding as on my button M2

Must be an early button rewind. With mine the button stays down once pressed and pops back up when you wind on.

[a.noctilux]

17 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

Must be an early button rewind. With mine the button stays down once pressed and pops back up when you wind on.

Early button M2, maybe , one without self-timer and the former photographer replaced the VF with M4 type so it's not in  original state any more, not important for me as user.

the one at left, it's so smooth 👍

 

 

[jackbaty]

2 hours ago, jackbaty said:

That's a great question that I don't have an answer to because I'm a moron and never thought of checking. Good excuse to get through the current roll, though :). Thanks for the suggestion!

I've checked, and the rewind knob turns smoothly and easily with no film loaded. I've loaded and cranked a test roll around 10 frames in a few times and rewinded. I've tried holding the rewind lever open snugly but there's no play in it and it made no noticeable difference. With film loaded, it's always harder to turn that what I'm used to, though. Once or twice I was actually worried I'd tear the film sprocket.  Doesn't feel right, although it may be totally "within tolerance". I'll keep tinkering with it, and perhaps just write Leica and see if they have any insight. Thanks for all the replies.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, jackbaty said:

I've checked, and the rewind knob turns smoothly and easily with no film loaded. I've loaded and cranked a test roll around 10 frames in a few times and rewinded. I've tried holding the rewind lever open snugly but there's no play in it and it made no noticeable difference. With film loaded, it's always harder to turn that what I'm used to, though. Once or twice I was actually worried I'd tear the film sprocket.  Doesn't feel right, although it may be totally "within tolerance". I'll keep tinkering with it, and perhaps just write Leica and see if they have any insight. Thanks for all the replies.

The only time I've experienced any difficulty turning the rewind knob on my M-A is when I was in a hurry to load a new roll and turned the rewind knob in the wrong direction!  Given the resistance I felt it was immediately obvious that I was being an idiot.  Since that's obviously not the issue you're experiencing, I would fire off an email to Leica CS and see what they say.  In my experience, Leica USA customer support is quick to respond and always helpful.

[250swb]

5 hours ago, jackbaty said:

I've checked, and the rewind knob turns smoothly and easily with no film loaded. I've loaded and cranked a test roll around 10 frames in a few times and rewinded. I've tried holding the rewind lever open snugly but there's no play in it and it made no noticeable difference. With film loaded, it's always harder to turn that what I'm used to, though. Once or twice I was actually worried I'd tear the film sprocket.  Doesn't feel right, although it may be totally "within tolerance". I'll keep tinkering with it, and perhaps just write Leica and see if they have any insight. Thanks for all the replies.

If your M3 rewind knob is so much loser it could well be it's that which needs a service (or ignore it) and your MP is actually fine. If halfway through rewinding a roll of film you let go of the rewind knob of your M3, does it stop and hold the film, or does it allow the film to unravel? If it holds the film that is correct. Now try it with your MP, if that holds the film it is correct.

[armadsen]

I have a new MP too (purchased at the end of October 2021), and have also shot 10 or 12 rolls. I don’t have an M3 to compare to, but my rewind knob is not particularly difficult to turn (or lift). There’s more resistance with film loaded than without, just like every other film camera I’ve ever used, but it’s not a major difference.

All this is to say that, based on your description, I wouldn’t rule out some defect in your MP. Definitely worth contacting Leica about, I’d say.

[28framelines]

Got mine this summer brand new, it was a bit stiff but it’s getting easier. I think it’s just because it’s brand new. My thumb would get tired when I first got the camera, but not anymore, and not because my thumb has gotten stronger, but because its “wearing in”. If it’s still like that in a year, then ya, get it checked. But you have 5 years to get the thing serviced if there is an actual issue. I’d say just enjoy it for now.

[jackbaty]

11 hours ago, 250swb said:

If your M3 rewind knob is so much loser it could well be it's that which needs a service (or ignore it) and your MP is actually fine. If halfway through rewinding a roll of film you let go of the rewind knob of your M3, does it stop and hold the film, or does it allow the film to unravel? If it holds the film that is correct. Now try it with your MP, if that holds the film it is correct.

The M3 works like I'd expect and does not allow the film to "unravel". It was overhauled by DAG a couple years ago, so I assume it's at least close to correct. But you're right, it could be looser than normal.

[jackbaty]

1 hour ago, 28framelines said:

Got mine this summer brand new, it was a bit stiff but it’s getting easier. I think it’s just because it’s brand new. My thumb would get tired when I first got the camera, but not anymore, and not because my thumb has gotten stronger, but because its “wearing in”. If it’s still like that in a year, then ya, get it checked. But you have 5 years to get the thing serviced if there is an actual issue. I’d say just enjoy it for now.

Good to hear that yours has loosened up somewhat. I've sent a note to Leica about mine and we'll see if they think it's an issue or if they also suggest I wait it out. Thanks.

[jackbaty]

I got word back about the MP from Leica (NJ) today: "Our Technical Manager has advised that you send in your camera so that one of our technicians can do some testing on it."

I'll post a note here when the camera eventually returns, in case anyone is interested.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

17 minutes ago, jackbaty said:

I got word back about the MP from Leica (NJ) today: "Our Technical Manager has advised that you send in your camera so that one of our technicians can do some testing on it."

I'll post a note here when the camera eventually returns, in case anyone is interested.

The rewind knob is just a knob on a shaft that turns, no gears to mesh, no cams, no specific direction of travel (unless rewinding a film), it has nothing other than newness.