Whyvis 18mm worse than 18 56?

[wda]

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2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Compare to Q2, both Elmarit-TL 18mm and Summicron-TL 23mm are really worst.
 

Using a Summilux-Q 28mm f/1.7 since 2015 (original Q) change your perspective of what is an excellent lens. Q and Q2 are amazing. That’s why Q is the third best selling Leica of all time after M3 then M6. 
And Q2 wants that crown too. 

Much of this quality jump is due to sensor size, not lens design.

[nicci78]

It is the lens ! 
jump from APS-C to 24x36 is not that great. 
Just like Peter Karbe said repeatedly : stop down once your full frame you end up with an APS-C sensor. 

Then compare Q against Summicron-M 28mm. Q is way better. 
Compare to Summilux-M 28mm they quite similar. But M variant is a little bit better.

 
 

 

[SrMi]

54 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

It is the lens ! 
jump from APS-C to 24x36 is not that great. 
Just like Peter Karbe said repeatedly : stop down once your full frame you end up with an APS-C sensor. 

<snip>

Can you point me where Peter Karbe said that?

I know that reducing exposure can have the same effect as using a smaller sensor, but stopping down (reducing aperture) should not have that effect.

[nicci78]

Video interview of Karbe on YouTube in 2020
about art of SL lenses. 
by the way when you stop down you have to use slower shutter speed (risk of blur) or higher ISO (higher noise)

Edited December 5, 2021 by nicci78

[Daedalus2000]

4 hours ago, Xue said:

Want changing lens and don't want manual M. 😂😂I will try search

What about the Sigma 18-50 f2.8? This will give you 18mm f2.8 and a good zoom range

[Xue]

I m not sure if this lowers the image colour or quality?

[cpclee]

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4 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Really Q2 is the best. You cannot go wrong with it. IQ is amazing. 
And you really got four lenses into one : 28mm f/1.7 + 35mm f/2 + 50mm f/2.8 + 75mm f/4.5

Crop mode really works superbly. 

 

I don't quite follow why cropping should reduce the maximum aperture.

[Xue]

Yes any one tried sigma 16mm？ How about the colour and quality compare to leica 18mm?

[Daedalus2000]

15 minutes ago, Xue said:

I m not sure if this lowers the image colour or quality?

If this question is about the Sigma lens (18-50) I only bought it on Friday so I will let you know in a week or so. At the moment it looks good but not spectacular. But I dont know the Leica 18mm quality so I cannot compare them, maybe they actually have the same quality anyway. I posted a pic with the Sigma, you can find it in the image thread

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Daedalus2000

[wda]

33 minutes ago, Xue said:

I m not sure if this lowers the image colour or quality?

It doesn't.

[RickP]

18mm Elmarit

 

I am down to one camera body (CL) and 4 or 5 lenses.  It is a wonderful system that meets all of my needs.

My thoughts on the 18mm TL Elmarit:

The 18mm Elmarit TL lens is: Not a Summilux Lens.

When on the CL, It is not on a full frame 24 /47meg full frame sensor

It is meant for the CL/TL bodies . .it provides a very useable walk-around lens that transforms your CL in to a street shooting, small package kit that yields very decent files even in low light.

Comparing this lens to a Q or a Q2 is ludicrous in my opinion. Like comparing a $20,000 Volkswagon to a $400,000 Ferrari..

I have owned a Q in the past and also a Ricoh GRIII.  The Q was wonderful,  but it is not a one camera system that covers all scenes .. .. it was very frustrating to have only a 28mm field of view.  I know, you can crop in camera, but  the resolution goes down very quickly.  The Q2 is better with 47megs, but still the same issue. You still need another camera to cover any need over 70mm FOV.

The GR III has a wonderful lens,  but imo the rest of the camera is no where near the quality of your CL. It is prone to dust on sensor and it seemed fragile to me.

Plus, no viewfinder on the GRIII.. That was a deal breaker for sure..

The 18 TL is a tiny lens that gives the CL owner a viable walk-around, street shooting, small package kit, for a small investment..  The package is small enough not to draw attention, yet results are quite acceptable.

 

It is what it is.

 

Rick

 

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CL..18mm Elmarit TL -1/60 f 2.8 ISO 400

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[Daedalus2000]

1 minute ago, RickP said:

18mm Elmarit

 

I am down to one camera body (CL) and 4 or 5 lenses.  It is a wonderful system that meets all of my needs.

My thoughts on the 18mm TL Elmarit:

The 18mm Elmarit TL lens is: Not a Summilux Lens.

When on the CL, It is not on a full frame 24 /47meg full frame sensor

It is meant for the CL/TL bodies . .it provides a very useable walk-around lens that transforms your CL in to a street shooting, small package kit that yields very decent files even in low light.

Comparing this lens to a Q or a Q2 is ludicrous in my opinion. Like comparing a $20,000 Volkswagon to a $400,000 Ferrari..

I have owned a Q in the past and also a Ricoh GRIII.  The Q was wonderful,  but it is not a one camera system that covers all scenes .. .. it was very frustrating to have only a 28mm field of view.  I know, you can crop in camera, but  the resolution goes down very quickly.  The Q2 is better with 47megs, but still the same issue. You still need another camera to cover any need over 70mm FOV.

The GR III has a wonderful lens,  but imo the rest of the camera is no where near the quality of your CL. It is prone to dust on sensor and it seemed fragile to me.

Plus, no viewfinder on the GRIII.. That was a deal breaker for sure..

The 18 TL is a tiny lens that gives the CL owner a viable walk-around, street shooting, small package kit, for a small investment..  The package is small enough not to draw attention, yet results are quite acceptable.

 

It is what it is.

 

Rick

 

Book Store 

CL..18mm Elmarit TL -1/60 f 2.8 ISO 400

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thank you for your input. I just bought the CL again and I am thinking of the 18mm for these cases when I want to have the smallest kit possible. I know the Ricoh GR III lens. Would you say it is a much better lens that then Leica 18mm? 

[RickP]

 

Quote,

"Thank you for your input. I just bought the CL again and I am thinking of the 18mm for these cases when I want to have the smallest kit possible. I know the Ricoh GR III lens. Would you say it is a much better lens that then Leica 18mm? "

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Daedalus,

There are many benefits to combining a camera body with a fixed lens. The CL and most cameras have interchangeable lenses which means each lens must do its best to match the sensors needs.(There are usually compromises involved)  Fixed lenses are easier to design for a specific body/sensor.  That is just one reason why the Q, Q2 and GRIII have such great results. That being said, the GRIII is quite an amazing package and I recommend it to anyone that needs a pocket camera. (as long as the afore mentioned negative issues are understood.)

Rick

Edited December 5, 2021 by RickP

[SoCalLeicanator]

Just now, RickP said:

 

Quote,

"Thank you for your input. I just bought the CL again and I am thinking of the 18mm for these cases when I want to have the smallest kit possible. I know the Ricoh GR III lens. Would you say it is a much better lens that then Leica 18mm? "

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Daedalus,

There are many benefits to combining a camera body with a fixed lens. The CL and most cameras have interchangeable lenses which means each lens must do its best to match the sensors needs.(There are usually compromises involved)  Fixed lenses are easier to design for a specific body/sensor.  That is just one reason why the Q, Q2 and GRIII have such great results. That being said, the GRIII is quite an amazing package and I recomend it to anyone that needs a pocket camera. as long as the afore mentioned negative issues are understood.

Rick

Rick, I've been toying around with picking up the 'x' model and then it would be q2 28, x 40 and the CL with the zoom when it's needed. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Video interview of Karbe on YouTube in 2020
about art of SL lenses. 
by the way when you stop down you have to use slower shutter speed (risk of blur) or higher ISO (higher noise)

There is no video called "Art of SL lenses" by Peter Karbe. Instead, there are "The Art of Leica Lenses,"  "The Art of the Leica M-lens," and "Leica SL Lens System."

I am currently watching the whole 2 hours of "The Art of Leica Lenses." I would be shocked if he said that reducing aperture is the same as using a smaller sensor (it's wrong).

Higher ISO does not mean higher noise. On the contrary, it improves noise slightly. Reduced exposure is what causes more noise. Exposure is reduced, e.g., by stopping down without increasing the shutter speed. In those cases, the camera increases the ISO to restore brightness.

 

 

[Daedalus2000]

51 minutes ago, RickP said:

 

Quote,

"Thank you for your input. I just bought the CL again and I am thinking of the 18mm for these cases when I want to have the smallest kit possible. I know the Ricoh GR III lens. Would you say it is a much better lens that then Leica 18mm? "

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Daedalus,

There are many benefits to combining a camera body with a fixed lens. The CL and most cameras have interchangeable lenses which means each lens must do its best to match the sensors needs.(There are usually compromises involved)  Fixed lenses are easier to design for a specific body/sensor.  That is just one reason why the Q, Q2 and GRIII have such great results. That being said, the GRIII is quite an amazing package and I recommend it to anyone that needs a pocket camera. (as long as the afore mentioned negative issues are understood.)

Rick

Thank you Rick. I do have the GR III, so maybe I do not need the 18m, but I was just wondering if I can always have a Leica with me  

Edited December 5, 2021 by Daedalus2000

[didier]

I find the 18 a good lens. It is a low-contrast lens, but has good resolution in my view.

It is quite easy to bump contrat in post-processing.

And as said before, its compactness is a real advantage.

 

[RickP]

14 minutes ago, Daedalus2000 said:

Thank you Rick. I do have the GR III, so maybe I do not need the 18m, but I was just wondering if I can always have a Leica with me  

That is exactly why I sold my GRiii and bought the 18mm Elmarit... not because the GRIII wasn't a great camera.   As I mentioned earlier,  I am now down to one camera body.. life is much simpler that way. 

 

Rick

Edited December 5, 2021 by RickP

[didier]

47 minutes ago, RickP said:

That is exactly why I sold my GRiii and bought the 18mm Elmarit... not because the GRIII wasn't a great camera.   As I mentioned earlier,  I am now down to one camera body.. life is much simpler that way. 

 

Rick

I went the same route. IQ is in another league with the CL+18/2.8 compared to the Ricoh, thus one looses some compactness 

Didier 

 

 

 

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[Daedalus2000]

2 hours ago, didier said:

I went the same route. IQ is in another league with the CL+18/2.8 compared to the Ricoh, thus one looses some compactness 

Didier 

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that the CL+18mm is better than the Ricoh?!?!   I have to say if that is true I will be very impressed