Service Life of M8.2 and M9

[smitty's]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi All,

   I have a M8.2 and M9. M8.2 had screen replaced for "coffee stain" symptom along with and CLA and the M9 had the corrosion sensor replaced. This work all preformed by Leica.

My film cameras have withstood the test of time but these digital guys concern me as I have been informed that should they go down they are not repairable. This is n awful lot of money for something that will someday will become expensive junk... and new Leica's are crazy money...

Does not sound like a good business plan for Leica..

Steve

[Ouroboros]

It isn't confined to Leica.  Welcome to the world of consumer goods and built-in obsolescence.

[LeicaR10]

Smitty's,  Not to be smart, but everything and everyone has an expiration date.  Those who own Leica M film cameras can still get them serviced for decades by either Leica or other outstanding repair people like Don Goldberg at DAG Camera.  The digital M cameras are a different lot of course.  If Leica has the parts for sensors and boards, it can be repaired.  I may misspeak, but I believe the EU mandates the electronic components need repair parts for 5 years.  Leica cameras are not immune to this obsolence either.  Canon, Nikon and most others will not service their cameras after so many years.  Computers are the same way.  Planned obsolences.  If you need repairs done on "older" digital model M cameras, you will find Leica will work on them until parts are exhausted.  Then you will need to try third party repair establishments.  If you really want to keep your digital M camera going, you can always buy a used digital beater and have it for parts. Only you will need to ask a third party repair person if they are willing to work on it.  I hope this helps.  r/ Mark

[Slender]

To be honest most M digital will stuggle to go above the 10-20 000 clics marks, not beacause they can't be because most "owners" are just owners, not heavy users.

Mine went well over 100 000 in 6 years. I sold it for a really good price and it paid for itself nicely in both income and joy to use. I bought it second hand from 2800 shots taken by the previous guy over a 5 years span.

I really believe, once the sensor issues of an M9 are overcome, you should be able to enjoy it for years and years.

Batteries (that you can replace) are most likely to give up, yes, and the rangefinder can be adjusted like any other M cameras at your local repair specialist.

Shutter should be good for hundreds of thousands. I believe people like @Overgaard took their Ms for well over the 250K mark rides. and possibly still use M9s (?). Remember these M8/M9 came at a point Leica Digital camera were still babbling babies and very few pros would actually have them as their main workhorse back then... So while admitedly their are -few- examples of people brassing the hell out of those cameras, it can - and should! - be done.

 

 

You are statistically more likely to get tired of it or want a new one before that happens.  😇

 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[jaapv]

Not planned obsolescence, but simply the pace at which technology it moving. In the past there were parts and simple machining can replace them - that is the way I keep my 53 year old summer car on the road - but it is impossible to expect complicated electronics made on machines costing hundreds of millions, to be manufactured forever in ever dwindling numbers

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, smitty's said:

My film cameras have withstood the test of time but these digital guys concern me as I have been informed that should they go down they are not repairable. This is n awful lot of money for something that will someday will become expensive junk... and new Leica's are crazy money...

Does not sound like a good business plan for Leica..

so, in your opinion, how long should Leica keep providing repairs/servicing for their older digital cameras?

 

[smitty's]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thanks for the feedback. Both cameras were purchased used and in good shape. M8.2 in excellent condition from a top Leica dealer, I bought the M9 with a new sensor installed (verified by Leica Repair). Both serving me well, and I keep my M3 should I need it or wish to shoot film..

I rebuild Model A Ford motors pouring Babbitt and all related machine using vintage tools. Good tools are important to me..

S

[jaapv]

I like A-Fords, I (or rather my father) owned and restored one in the far past   However, one does not need a  150.000.000,-- $ Stepper to pour Babbit....

[ianman]

6 hours ago, smitty's said:

My film cameras have withstood the test of time but these digital guys concern me as I have been informed that should they go down they are not repairable. This is n awful lot of money for something that will someday will become expensive junk... and new Leica's are crazy money...

AFAIK only the sensor for the M9 is no longer available from Leica.  What makes you think that either your 8.2 or 9 are not going to last for years? I have some vintage synthesisers that date from the early 70s that are still in perfect working order.

I’ve had my M9 for 12 years, that’s approx 1€ per day so far. Is that crazy money? Even the battery delivered with it still works perfectly.

[pgk]

I'm still running 2 x M9s and will do so for as long as they keep going and parts are available - hopefully for many years to come.

I don't think that the cameras have built in obsolescence so much as consumers. If a camera was viewed as a viable tool for decades then it could be produced for a very long time, as could spares. But you only have to look at the discussions on the forum about what features/improvements the next M camera should have to figure out that viable and fit for purpose won't sell new cameras because buyers want 'better', whether they need it (for the mostly part this is very doubtful as far as I'm concerned) or not. Many seem to be prepared to spend an awful lot of money for marginal improvements which probably won't ultimately improve many photographs. Its an odd world where the desire to keep things working is usurped by the desire for something new.

[ianman]

+10000

[Ko.Fe.]

13 hours ago, smitty's said:

Hi All,

   I have a M8.2 and M9. M8.2 had screen replaced for "coffee stain" symptom along with and CLA and the M9 had the corrosion sensor replaced. This work all preformed by Leica.

My film cameras have withstood the test of time but these digital guys concern me as I have been informed that should they go down they are not repairable. This is n awful lot of money for something that will someday will become expensive junk... and new Leica's are crazy money...

Does not sound like a good business plan for Leica..

Steve

"Business plan"... I'm sorry, but...

Do you know it is not same old same capacitors and diodes anymore? Electronic components lasts only as long as supplier finds economical reason to make them. These days it is few years span.

So, your "good business plan for Leica" is to build electronic components plants. One for boards, another for sensor and at least third one for screens. Because here is no business willing to supply something which is considered as the obsolete. 

Without enforced "right to repair" and telling g.a.s. consumerists what they are nature resources enemies, Leica Camera AG business is just doing great. They are making money on those who are talking about M11 year after M10 release and for those who are holding to old, non repairable M8.2, M9 they have traid-ins. Take it or fof and lots of takers.   

As for gear cost, it is driven not by Leica but those who are willing to pay such huge money.   

 

[darylgo]

22 hours ago, smitty's said:

 

Does not sound like a good business plan for Leica..

 

The M9 caused a demand for Leica lenses unseen prior.  The wait for any lens at the time was months.  Leica didn’t plan for this, they hit a home run with the M9.  The business plan may not have been good but business was and is. 
 

M lenses play a big (huge) role in the M system, for many myself included, the bodies are secondary, albeit a very important second.  I am more concerned with lens electronics obsolescence than bodies, something that does not plaque Leica M but is starting to happen with AF lenses from other manufacturers.  Contax lenses for the 645 have no support, Olympus lenses may be the same in the future.  Nikon will not repair older lenses because of electronics. 

[pixelstrata]

An interesting analogy to run would be vintage watches. Most of which could be repaired indefinitely. Probably because of course they are mechanical. As for M9 which I’ve had around 6 years, I hope it can run and run. Be repaired with spares. Even rejigged with a bit of soldering if ever needed. Hard core electronics would be harder to fix. Buying my M9 incidentally totally cured any gear acquisition syndrome - prior to buying the M9 I steadily moved through various other cameras - Canon, Fuji etc. I was more often than not looking at new gear. After I got the M9 and Summicron 50mm f2 I didn’t think about another camera for many years - until very recently I suddenly got the itch when I saw great prices for used Leica Q gen 1. I bought a Q-P around 3-4 years old. $2500 mint. Bang goes all that cash saved from not buying a camera for 6 years! But at least it was proven to me that endless upgrading could stop right there with the M9 no other camera needed. How’s that for curing rampant consumerism?! And it still holds its own very easily all these years after launch despite older electronics. 

[palmerfralick]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:53 PM, Ko.Fe. said:

"Business plan"... I'm sorry, but...

Do you know it is not same old same capacitors and diodes anymore? Electronic components lasts only as long as supplier finds economical reason to make them. These days it is few years span.

So, your "good business plan for Leica" is to build electronic components plants. One for boards, another for sensor and at least third one for screens. Because here is no business willing to supply something which is considered as the obsolete. 

Without enforced "right to repair" and telling g.a.s. consumerists what they are nature resources enemies, Leica Camera AG business is just doing great. They are making money on those who are talking about M11 year after M10 release and for those who are holding to old, non repairable M8.2, M9 they have traid-ins. Take it or fof and lots of takers.   

As for gear cost, it is driven not by Leica but those who are willing to pay such huge money.   

 

what do they do with M8 trade in's?

[Adam Bonn]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:08 PM, pixelstrata said:

An interesting analogy to run would be vintage watches. Most of which could be repaired indefinitely. Probably because of course they are mechanical.

A watch from (say) the 1920s can be repaired today because highly competent watch makers own things like lathes etc and can manufacture parts and because vintage watches (and cars etc) were constructed using vintage tooling and skills, neither of which is untenable in today's world

It's a different story with electrical equipment, where (much like the original McDonald's Szechuan Sauce) if parts are no longer being made then that's it (unless you're Rick or Morty)

Years ago someone stripped down an M8 (can't imagine the M9 is that much different) and noted a lot of 'off the shelf' electrical components, of course these components might no longer be on the shelf (!) but it's possible that a specialist might be able to fix a PCB/component type issue with the M8/9 for a while yet... 

Personally, I'm more fearful of the parts that are not off the shelf (and I'm not saying that Leica has run out of these) my hunch here is that Leica isn't making top plates, screens, shutters, buttons, etc for these cameras anymore, so they only have what's in stock... which is a finite supply of things that can break if the camera has an accident.

[jaapv]

On 2/17/2022 at 11:56 AM, Adam Bonn said:

A watch from (say) the 1920s can be repaired today because highly competent watch makers own things like lathes etc and can manufacture parts and because vintage watches (and cars etc) were constructed using vintage tooling and skills, neither of which is untenable in today's world

It's a different story with electrical equipment, where (much like the original McDonald's Szechuan Sauce) if parts are no longer being made then that's it (unless you're Rick or Morty)

Years ago someone stripped down an M8 (can't imagine the M9 is that much different) and noted a lot of 'off the shelf' electrical components, of course these components might no longer be on the shelf (!) but it's possible that a specialist might be able to fix a PCB/component type issue with the M8/9 for a while yet... 

Personally, I'm more fearful of the parts that are not off the shelf (and I'm not saying that Leica has run out of these) my hunch here is that Leica isn't making top plates, screens, shutters, buttons, etc for these cameras anymore, so they only have what's in stock... which is a finite supply of things that can break if the camera has an accident.

Top plates are indeed not made by Leica but by Weller which is located next to Leica on the Leitz Park. 
 

https://www.weller-feinwerktechnik.de/inhalt/home.html

[Adam Bonn]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Top plates are indeed not made by Leica but by Weller which is located next to Leica on the Leitz Park. 
 

https://www.weller-feinwerktechnik.de/inhalt/home.html

But are they still making m8/9 ones? Or once current stocks are gone, they’re gone..?

[jaapv]

I suspect they will, being closely associated with Leica. Uwe Weller is an ex-Leica employee. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pgk]

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

But are they still making m8/9 ones? Or once current stocks are gone, they’re gone..?

It will probably depend on 'set-up times' and quantity required. That is to say that if they have retained the CAD files and there is sufficient demand for a 'minimum economic run' then they will be able to make new parts. The problem will be that 'minimum economic run' ,because if demand is smaller, then making just a very few items might prove to be prohbiitively expensive. I deal with a manufacturer of CAD milled items and the minimum number of an 'expensive' (for retail purchasers like us) item is around 50 units. I'd guess that 50 M8/9 new top plates would be a big ask.