Wide M lens for closeups

[hirohhhh]

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Is there any lens, 28mm or wider that can focus closer than 0.7m? I tried new 35mm APO and it's great, but I'd prefer wider.

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[adan]

The 21 Super-Angulons of the 1960s-70s focus to 0.4m/16 inches. By scale-focusing of course, not with the rangefinder.

But they do not play nicely with color digital (magenta or cyan edges to pictures)

The 16-18-21mm Leica Tri-Elmar (a.k.a the WATE) focuses to 0.5m/20 inches. And is a whole different design (2006) that accounts for the needs of color digital sensors.

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Voigtlander's 10 or 12 or 15mm lenses focus closer than 0.7m - but I'm not sure how much. The early 15mm and 12mm v.1s or 2s, in screwmount (but adaptable to M-mount) have the same color problems as the Super-Angulons. The v.3 15mm and the 10mm are larger, but work well with digital.

If you are going to focus TTL with live-view/EVF anyway, an accessory screw-in closeup lens will, of course, work with regular Leica 21/24/28s to get you closer. Just as it would have with SLRs of all ages, or with a mirrorless body.

A close-up lens will also work without live-view/EVF - but you'd have to experiment and come up with your own conversion tables to scale-focus.

e.g. something like, with close-up accessory lens mounted,

infinity on the focus-ring scale = 0.8m actual focus distance
5m on the scale = 0.7m actual focus distance
2m on the scale = 0.5m actual focus
1m on the scale = 0.4m actual fcus
0.7m on the scale - 0.35m actual focus

(all numbers made up for demonstration purposes )

Edited November 28, 2021 by adan

[hirohhhh]

@adan Thanks for the options. It's plenty. However, I do not want to have color problems and 0.5 is not much closer than 0.7. It is, but I'd like to go as close as 0.3. Also, I'd prefer not to use additional screw-ins and accessories. Just a lens that can get closer and make fantastic images like all other M lenses.

Here's the example of how close I can get with my Fuji X100V and Leica M10-R. Fuji has 35mm equivalent lens and Leica 28mm Summilux 1.4.

So, here I'm just showing the minimum focusing distance between these two. Don't pay attention to anything else. It's s stupid image just taken for this example. Luckily I have a great subject to demonstrate this experiment.

I keep my Fuji basically just for the closeups (not macro, but getting closer than I can with M and SL), which is once in a while, but when I need it it's the only camera I have that allows me to get this close. I'd like to have that option with M10-R, simply because that's the camera that is always with me. Is there an M lens that I can achieve this, but wider than 35mm?

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[adan]

From Leica? For the M?

Not yet - not both "wide" and "close-focusing" and without accessories. They would have been fairly useless prior to the existence of digital live-view.

Except of course the brand-new 35mm APO-Summicron-M-ASPH. Which puts a very high price on the feature.

There might well be an APO-28-M or APO-21-M in the future, that can focus to 0.3m.

There is still the problem that a wide lens makes things smaller (takes in more of the world) - which runs contrary to making things bigger. A 21/24/28 focusing to 0.3m won't make things as big as a 35mm (or equivalent) at 0.3m. It would have to focus down to 0.2m or closer to make your fly as large.

[hirohhhh]

20 minutes ago, adan said:

From Leica? For the M?

Not yet - not both "wide" and "close-focusing" and without accessories. They would have been fairly useless prior to the existence of digital live-view.

Except of course the brand-new 35mm APO-Summicron-M-ASPH. Which puts a very high price on the feature.

There might well be an APO-28-M or APO-21-M in the future, that can focus to 0.3m.

There is still the problem that a wide lens makes things smaller (takes in more of the world) - which runs contrary to making things bigger. A 21/24/28 focusing to 0.3m won't make things as big as a 35mm (or equivalent) at 0.3m. It would have to focus down to 0.2m or closer to make your fly as large.

Yeah, this is not the best comparison, 28 vs 35mm, but that's all I have for now. I'm considering 35mm APO, but the wait line is too long... I'll have to stick to my Fuji for a little longer. I also have 70mm macro for SL, but that focal length also provides a totally different look than what I want.

[Gelatino]

Would a M-lens in reverse position be part of a solution ?

[hirohhhh]

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25 minutes ago, Gelatino said:

Would a M-lens in reverse position be part of a solution ?

How?

[Gelatino]

With an adaptator with one side M-mount to go on the body, the other side srew- mount to go on the lens.(See Nikon BR-2) The problem is that you need a different adaptator for each different front lens diameter, (or a step-up/down).

 

[FrozenInTime]

The voigtlander 21mm lenses focus to 0.5m

You could also try the 10mm extension ring https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/OUFRO ... though that will probably get you too close 

Edited November 28, 2021 by FrozenInTime

[a.noctilux]

13 minutes ago, Gelatino said:

With an adaptator with one side M-mount to go on the body, the other side srew- mount to go on the lens.(See Nikon BR-2) The problem is that you need a different adaptator for each different front lens diameter, (or a step-up/down).

 

 

Depending on the lens (28mm ? )...

28mm reversed would have little use, only one magnification ( mostly more than 1:1) and very close to the subject (a couple of cm from sensor).

 

[crony]

Hi, if this is wide enough : ZEISS Biogon 2,8/25 , down to 0.5 m.

[Cattoo]

I suggest you consider the leica macro-adapter.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1055729-REG/leica_14652_macro_adapter_m.html 

It'll work with any m-mount lens.  I had one and used it with my SL and the 90mm APO Summicron M.  It's $750 new.  You may be able to find a used one.  Definitely cheaper than buying a new lens. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Cattoo

[michaelcole]

Find a used leica oufro 16469Y.  It is a 10mm extension tube.  It will get you as close as your closest example with a 35mm or 28mm lens.  The Leica macro-adapter would only do much closer with those lenses.

[a.noctilux]

OUFRO, 16469Y I forgot this device.

 

So I never used Oufro with wide angle lens before, only on longer lens from 50mm for many years.

Quick snaps I share results here with 28mm and 35mm.

This can be seen as only ONE magnification as focussing the lens let very small closer.

 

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Oufro + Summarit-M 2.5/35mm

 

Oufro + Elmarit-M 28mm asph.

no lens exif, 😉 oufro not coded

 

[jaapv]

Or invest a modest amount and get the Sigma 70 Macro Art L. I find it a good replacement for an APO-Macro Elmarit R. In general, short focal lenses are not optimal for close up photography, which gives a wide-angle like perspective with longer lenses.

[a.noctilux]

As Jaap wrote above, I'd buy SLR lens, so many out there to try out, so cheap comparing to M lenses.

Good thing with liveview, on Leica M we can use so many lenses with right adapter.

 

The days before Tri-Elmar-M release, I tried out so many zooms on my Ms.

I tried out even wide angle zoom lenses, Canon FD-L 20-35 came to my mind close focus to 50cm but now I know I can use Oufro with the zoom 😉.

Another nice zoom Pentax 24-50, close focus to 40cm and usable from infinity (as other SLR lenses), isn't it nice lens ?

[a.noctilux]

showed the combo, here 😇

 

[derleicaman]

Another alternative might be the Leica 60/2.8 Macro Elmarit R. I have mine from my Leica R days. It goes down to 1/2 lifesize on its own, without the 1:1 adapter. With the 1:1 adapter, it goes to full life size. All you need is an R to M adapter. I use this lens on my M10-P and Live View for macro work with a tripod. Before the M10, I used and still do occasionally a Fuji XE-2 with Live View. It gives an approximate 90mm field of view equivalent on the Fuji.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M