External viewfinder for a 21mm lens on the m8

[Rangeman133]

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If I use a 21mm lens, I understand that I won’t be able to easily see the entire built in viewfinder on the m8, especially since I also wear eyeglasses.

I’m looking for an inexpensive solution, such as mounting an external 28mm external viewfinder on the hot shoe. 

ive found several of these external viewfinders on eBay, selling for less than 50 USD. Is this too good to be true? Can any 28mm viewfinder be used? And would they be ok for eyeglass wearers? Im not sure if I’m allowed to link to eBay on this forum 

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[a.noctilux]

Cheap 28mm VF can work of course.

Know brands (Zeiss, Voigtlander, Leica, etc.) would be better built (or not) but always more expensive than $50.

[Rangeman133]

38 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Cheap 28mm VF can work of course.

Know brands (Zeiss, Voigtlander, Leica, etc.) would be better built (or not) but always more expensive than $50.

Thank you,

I came across a 21/28mm Ricoh GV-1 External Viewfinder, I suppose this would be the most ideal, as I could use it for the 21mm lens on the m6 or m8. And I could also use it on my grii. 

Price wise, it sits between the 50 USD and 300+ USD range

I found it on the B and H website, but on the QandA for the product, someone said that this external viewfinder is not compatible on the Leica M4, which leads me to believe it is not compatible with any other Leica camera? Is this likely to be a mistake?

 

[rpsawin]

Just bear in mind an external vf is used for framing the shot and not for pulling a focus.

[Rangeman133]

2 hours ago, rpsawin said:

Just bear in mind an external vf is used for framing the shot and not for pulling a focus.

Yes, thanks. I initially used the rangefinder patch quite frequently, but ever since learning to zone focus, I’m now enjoying the camera much more. 

I have noticed that whenever I focus (pun intended) on getting the overlapped images in the rangefinder, my subjects tend to be central, and composition sometimes becomes an after thought. In that sense, zone focusing has been liberating. 

but I see your point, if I was to pull focus, and then frame with the external vf, I think it would get rather cumbersome 

i haven’t purchased a viewfinder just yet. The 21mm lens arrives this week, I guess I’ll first see if the built in vf can be compromised with. But with eyeglasses, it will be difficult.

I just can’t believe how expensive these viewfinders are! But I think if I can find one that works with glasses, I could also use it with my other cameras with 28mm equiv lenses, so maybe it would be justified 

 

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

Apparently the GV-1 has a slight offset angle.  When fitted to a Ricoh camera the hot shoe is not completely above the lens but slightly offset to one side.  This may be why someone has suggested the viewfinder is not compatible with a Leica.  

[jankap]

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18 minutes ago, Graham (G4FUJ) said:

Apparently the GV-1 has a slight offset angle.  When fitted to a Ricoh camera the hot shoe is not completely above the lens but slightly offset to one side.  This may be why someone has suggested the viewfinder is not compatible with a Leica.  

The same problem is for the M (M8) the case. The viewfinder cannot be not so exact as an LCD. And don't forget at short distances there is parallax.

Edited November 10, 2021 by jankap

[a.noctilux]

@Rangeman133

This would work,

if you don't have the aux VF yet, try this :

having the framing in your 'thinking', then look in the M8 VF as rough guide, about 120% of the whole VF would be 'in the pic'  taking into account the 'more field' for 21mm lens,

snap the picture ...

With some practices and not needing to frame precisely, this is my M8+21mm periodic use ( ...without aux VF after using for a while 28 ext. VF ).

[Rangeman133]

Thank you. 

I’ve recently done a deep dive into this topic, and decided to hold back on the Ricoh vf. To be honest, I’m not worried about exact framing. With enough practice, is it possible to compensate using an external vf, depending on the distance? I think I’ll experiment, if the parralex and framing are way off, I’ll just do without it.

but it does seem apparent that with external vf’s, you get what you pay for. From a lot of reading, I’ve decided to skip on the inexpensive ones that don’t have any frame lines. Apparantlty they are made out of old recycled camera parts. 

[Rangeman133]

10 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

@Rangeman133

This would work,

if you don't have the aux VF yet, try this :

having the framing in your 'thinking', then look in the M8 VF as rough guide, about 120% of the whole VF would be 'in the pic'  taking into account the 'more field' for 21mm lens,

snap the picture ...

With some practices and not needing to frame precisely, this is my M8+21mm periodic use ( ...without aux VF after using for a while 28 ext. VF ).

Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately I wear eyeglasses. But I’ve read somewhere that someone who also wore glasses would have a method in which they would ‘quickly’ scan the outer edge of the frame by moving their head and eye around the inbuilt viewfinder. I could also give this a go if I really need to frame properly.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Rangeman133

[a.noctilux]

I insist in the framing in your head before taking the M to your eye.

Anyway, the aux VF would have some 'flaws' to compensate in real life use, weird parallax, not 100% accurate, etc.

Scanning the eye around in the M8's VF is not my option, just rough guide and some more practices.

[jankap]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

I insist in the framing in your head before taking the M to your eye.

Anyway, the aux VF would have some 'flaws' to compensate in real life use, weird parallax, not 100% accurate, etc.

Scanning the eye around in the M8's VF is not my option, just rough guide and some more practices.

He can shoot from the hip too.

The Leica VFs are the best ones. I have the 50, 90 and 135mm ones. Also some from other brands, you can forget them. The old slogan holds here: " Leica, if quality decides".

[Rangeman133]

Thanks again, but I have opened up a new can of worms in my own research in all this! Regardless, hopefully this thread can be useful to someone in the future who is looking for viewfinders.

I've just experimented with an a7iii, which has a built in diopter (from -4.0 to +3.0). My right eye is -3.5, and the difference is literally night and day when I try it out with the correct setting on the a7iii. 

I placed the m8 to my eye without my glasses, and the framing now becomes much more manageable. Now to get the right set of diopters.

Thanks again for the help everyone. My next question would be that Leica only makes diopters up to -3.0. Does anybody know of any alternatives or fixes? Also, this would also work well with my m6 and 28mm, so it's a no brainer. Assuming its possible, I suppose this is the first thing I should have done. 

[jankap]

You mention a7III. You know the Kolari thin filter conversion for range finder lenses?

[Pyrogallol]

I am a bit confused, are you looking for a 21mm finder or 28mm?

i bought two Leitz 21mm finders recently, both relatively cheap. If you keep a look out on e Bay you can pick up a less than perfect one for a reasonable price or look at other brands.

As far as a slight offset fitting is concerned, the wider the view the less inaccurate the view will be. So having the finder a few millimetres to one side or other of the centre of the lens is not going to make any difference to the picture you take.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=21+mm+finder&_sacat=625&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=2

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[Rangeman133]

49 minutes ago, jankap said:

You mention a7III. You know the Kolari thin filter conversion for range finder lenses?

 

I have briefly read about this. But I have a 24-105 lens which pretty much remains glued to it. the a7iii is probably my 'best but also most boring' camera to use lol. I'm not sure how else to explain it. It's too automated for my liking, just takes the entire enjoyment out of making photos. But it works for what I want it to do.

I have experimented with adapters. I wasn't too impressed with the 50mm summicron on the a7iii. Maybe kolari is the way to go.

Will the kolari conversion at all interfere with any other aspect of the a7iii? I use eye-AF a lot for instance, and I've also been overall happy with how the camera performs. 

I guess I'm afraid of it coming back not working as great with the Sony system. But to be honest, I haven't looked deeper into this. But yeah, I'll definitely consider this, thanks for bringing it up.

 

41 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

I am a bit confused, are you looking for a 21mm finder or 28mm?

i bought two Leitz 21mm finders recently, both relatively cheap. If you keep a look out on e Bay you can pick up a less than perfect one for a reasonable price or look at other brands.

As far as a slight offset fitting is concerned, the wider the view the less inaccurate the view will be. So having the finder a few millimetres to one side or other of the centre of the lens is not going to make any difference to the picture you take.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=21+mm+finder&_sacat=625&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=2

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Sorry I should have explained this. I was looking for a 28mm viewfinder, to use with my 21mm lens on the m8, which gives a 28mm focal length due to the crop factor. But thanks for your reply anyways.

 

 

 

EDIT: also, just wanted to add that the leica m8 (maybe all leicas, i dunno?) have -0.5 diopter built into them. That means the -3.0 should be just about a perfect fit. Thanks everyone for your help! 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Rangeman133

[jankap]

The Kolari conversion could influence the IQ when using Sony lenses. I have no data.

[UliWer]

On 11/9/2021 at 1:45 AM, Rangeman133 said:

Can any 28mm viewfinder be used?

Yes, they can. The 21mm field of view for full format is reduced to one equivalent to 28mm with an M8. 

The external viewfinders from Leica had inner frames for the M8 field of view. I am not sure, whether new ones still have them, but they certainly had them during the times of the M8 and later. So if you find one with these inner frames, you can use it for 21mm on full frame cameras as well as for the M8. Of course the original Leica finders are expensive.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by UliWer

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[Graham (G4FUJ)]

I have a Voigtlander 15-35 Zoom Finder which I find quite useful for wider lenses on my M8, M6 and M4-P.  

[a.noctilux]

Like Graham, this Zoomfinder 15-35 is the best aux VF for me, I wrote this so often,

not the prettiest, nor the cheapest, but BEST for user of M8 and 24x36 like me .

It has two choices for x1.5 or x1.3 for the secondary focal lengths.

Another type can have x2 setting in place of x1.5...

[ ...

including diopter adjustment from +1.3 to -2.8

]

 

from Wiki

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Edited November 11, 2021 by a.noctilux