M-ISO > Auto

[hirohhhh]

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Why is there Auto ISO option in M-ISO? What's the difference if I set the ISO wheel on A versus M with ISO Auto setting?

Also, what's you Max Auto ISO and Max Exposure time? I set mine to 12500 and 1/30 because anything lower than 1/30 I'm having a hard time getting a sharp shot without image stabilization.

I'm new to the M system and coming from SL, and I'm still practicing to nail the exposure and focus on a run and gun shooting, like streets and kids.

Edited October 28, 2021 by hirohhhh

[Tailwagger]

I suspect the source of confusion is that where you might think that M stands for Manual and A for Auto, from the behavior... can't be bothered to RTFM...  you'd only be half right. A does indeed engage Auto-iso, whereas M solely relies on the whatever the Menu ISO setting is. So for example, you could set the menu ISO to 100 and toggle between auto and 100 by going from A to M with the dial.

Personally, after the early M10 stuck iso debacle,  I leave the wheel in M and just manipulate iso via the menu system. If the wheel were somehow to become stuck or decoupled (the problem with early M10s) as dial value overrides the menu setting, you wind up permanently in whatever ISO you choose via the wheel.  When in auto ISO, I tend to reset the limits based on shooting conditions anyway so the dial serves little purpose AFAIC.  I dont find fussing with the wheel significantly faster than dealing with  ISO via the screen when you have it as a part of the custom items on the first page.  The only real advantage to using the dial to select the ISO value,  assuming you're not using the EVF, is knowing your current ISO setting at a glance. 

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[mujk]

6 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

Why is there Auto ISO option in M-ISO? What's the difference if I set the ISO wheel on A versus M with ISO Auto setting?

Also, what's you Max Auto ISO and Max Exposure time? I set mine to 12500 and 1/30 because anything lower than 1/30 I'm having a hard time getting a sharp shot without image stabilization.

I'm new to the M system and coming from SL, and I'm still practicing to nail the exposure and focus on a run and gun shooting, like streets and kids.

I think ISOAuto is in the menu in case you always want to use the menu for ISO, leaving the dial in the M position.

Max auto ISO 6400, Max exp time 1/2f (determined by focal length). Requires that you set lens type for uncoded lenses.

[hirohhhh]

1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

I suspect the source of confusion is that where you might think that M stands for Manual and A for Auto, from the behavior... can't be bothered to RTFM...  you'd only be half right. A does indeed engage Auto-iso, whereas M solely relies on the whatever the Menu ISO setting is. So for example, you could set the menu ISO to 100 and toggle between auto and 100 by going from A to M with the dial.

Personally, after the early M10 stuck iso debacle,  I leave the wheel in M and just manipulate iso via the menu system. If the wheel were somehow to become stuck or decoupled (the problem with early M10s) as dial value overrides the menu setting, you wind up permanently in whatever ISO you choose via the wheel.  When in auto ISO, I tend to reset the limits based on shooting conditions anyway so the dial serves little purpose AFAIC.  I dont find fussing with the wheel significantly faster than dealing with  ISO via the screen when you have it as a part of the custom items on the first page.  The only real advantage to using the dial to select the ISO value,  assuming you're not using the EVF, is knowing your current ISO setting at a glance. 

I actually RTFM, but I didn't get it stands for Menu instead Manual. In fact, it says Manual, but nevertheless, I understand now from your post what is it for. Thanks!

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[Gobert]

1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

I suspect the source of confusion is that where you might think that M stands for Manual and A for Auto, from the behavior... can't be bothered to RTFM...  you'd only be half right. A does indeed engage Auto-iso, whereas M solely relies on the whatever the Menu ISO setting is. So for example, you could set the menu ISO to 100 and toggle between auto and 100 by going from A to M with the dial.

Personally, after the early M10 stuck iso debacle,  I leave the wheel in M and just manipulate iso via the menu system. If the wheel were somehow to become stuck or decoupled (the problem with early M10s) as dial value overrides the menu setting, you wind up permanently in whatever ISO you choose via the wheel.  When in auto ISO, I tend to reset the limits based on shooting conditions anyway so the dial serves little purpose AFAIC.  I dont find fussing with the wheel significantly faster than dealing with  ISO via the screen when you have it as a part of the custom items on the first page.  The only real advantage to using the dial to select the ISO value,  assuming you're not using the EVF, is knowing your current ISO setting at a glance. 

The Iso wheel problems where only on the first batch?

[Tailwagger]

4 hours ago, Gobert said:

The Iso wheel problems where only on the first batch?

Dunno. I'm not sure they ever said. I don't recall seeing any serial number cutoff issued by Leica.  Regardless, don't mistake my personal paranoia for anything based in reality. I'm sure it hasn't been a problem for a long, long time now.  I had a very early M10, found its dial not all that happy to pop up in the first place and had no desire to find out if my camera was affected. Not wanting to risk losing my camera to NJ for a couple of months, I just got into the habit of using the menus (something I have to do on all my other cameras anyway).  That habit has just continued on with the 10-R.  In fact, I only just tried its dial for the first time a few seconds ago. Pretty cool... might actually start using it. 😉

[hirohhhh]

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So, if I set Maximum Exposure Time to 1/f, it will set the minimum shutter speed to the focal length of the lens? 1/(2f) will double the focal length, so if I have 28mm lens, the shutter speed will not go below 1/56.

[chris_tribble]

On 10/28/2021 at 9:40 PM, Tailwagger said:

Dunno. I'm not sure they ever said. I don't recall seeing any serial number cutoff issued by Leica.  Regardless, don't mistake my personal paranoia for anything based in reality. I'm sure it hasn't been a problem for a long, long time now.  I had a very early M10, found its dial not all that happy to pop up in the first place and had no desire to find out if my camera was affected. Not wanting to risk losing my camera to NJ for a couple of months, I just got into the habit of using the menus (something I have to do on all my other cameras anyway).  That habit has just continued on with the 10-R.  In fact, I only just tried its dial for the first time a few seconds ago. Pretty cool... might actually start using it. 😉

I had 2 M10s from the earliest days of UK availability.  I now have one M10-R.  I've never had a problem with the ISO wheel...  Just my experience 🙂

[Kwesi]

On 10/31/2021 at 7:15 PM, hirohhhh said:

So, if I set Maximum Exposure Time to 1/f, it will set the minimum shutter speed to the focal length of the lens? 1/(2f) will double the focal length, so if I have 28mm lens, the shutter speed will not go below 1/56.

That is correct. I have mine set to 6400 ISO and 1/125s since my 3 most used lenses, 28/35/50 are roughly the same size and reach.

This way when I'm indoors I turn the ISO and shutter dials to A, choose an aperture and fire away.

[Kwesi]

I'm often surprised when I find later that the camera chose a lower ISO than I would have had I set it manually.

Here is an example from a few nights ago, 35FLE at 1.4, 1/125s@ ISO 200

 

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Edited November 7, 2021 by Kwesi
added image

[hirohhhh]

I'm generally satisfied with the results I'm getting with ISO set to M. My settings for ISO Auto for the past 4 months are:

M-ISO: Auto
Maximum Auto ISO: 6400
Maximum Exposure Time: 1/500

But in some cases, I'd like to have the option to choose if Auto should prefer lower ISO or slower shutter speed. Sometimes I find unnecessarily high ISO on a bright sunny day and high shutter speed when I don't need it. I guess it is possible to make another option in to ISO Auto menu to select which one is preferred, so if I'm going out to shoot street photography on a sunny day, and I have fast moving subjects, I'd like the lowest ISO possible and fastest shutter speed. If I prefer shutter speed over the low ISO, I'd toggle-off that option.

[Dennis]

90% of the time I change iso manually, usually 200, 800, and 3200 only.

If Auto, my max iso is 3200 and minimum SS 1/60

I believe the M10 at 6400 is not very good.

 

[FMB]

From the English Manual:

Using the setting dial 10
The values engraved on the dial are available, as well as the positions
A for automatic setting and M for intermediate values, e.g.
250, and for values higher than 6400.
In its idling position – down – the wheel is locked.

So according Leica thought, M neither for Auto ISO nor for other uses and YES  to fix  one intermediate value, or one higher superior value  than 6400 ISO, to chouse in that dial as a quick alternative. (Always the same value till deliberately was changed by oneself).

If I'm not wrong!

 

[hirohhhh]

7 hours ago, FMB said:

From the English Manual:

Using the setting dial 10
The values engraved on the dial are available, as well as the positions
A for automatic setting and M for intermediate values, e.g.
250, and for values higher than 6400.
In its idling position – down – the wheel is locked.

So according Leica thought, M neither for Auto ISO nor for other uses and YES  to fix  one intermediate value, or one higher superior value  than 6400 ISO, to chouse in that dial as a quick alternative. (Always the same value till deliberately was changed by oneself).

If I'm not wrong!

 

That’s correct.

[MikeMyers]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:40 PM, Dennis said:

I believe the M10 at 6400 is not very good.

Is this true? 

I thought the M10 could go considerably higher than 6400 and still get good results, but this was from a long time ago.  

Is the only issue that at 6400 and higher, the image gets noisy?

[Dhritiman B]

Question regarding the M10 ISO-related issues that were reported in the early days of the camera - mainly about whether base ISO is 100 or 200. I think independent testers landed at around ISO 160 or so because Leica never stated an exact figure.

I can see that ISO 200 offers slightly more control in dynamic range (especially in shadows) than ISO 100 (which is a "pull" setting as opposed to Base ISO), so I'd like to set that as my Base ISO. It's obviously easy to set that using the ISO dial but if I shoot in Aperture Priority, the camera always defaults to ISO 100 as the Base. How can I change this so the camera chooses ISO 200 as the Base?

[rramesh]

This is one way to use it.

• On the M10 set to manual ISO on the dial.
• With this setting, use the profiles to preset ISO. One profile for ISO 250, one for ISO 1600 and one for Auto-ISO. Speed is preset to 1/2f or 1/4f.

It works well for me.

Edited March 20, 2023 by rramesh

[Kiwimac]

It's a bit illogical.

 

M = Manual ISO control.

 

However, if I turn the dial, I am manually controlling the ISO. So....😕

[RobW0]

3 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

It's a bit illogical.

 

M = Manual ISO control.

 

However, if I turn the dial, I am manually controlling the ISO. So....😕

I have M set to an ISO higher than 6400, that way I don't have to go into the menu if I have a shot that needs a higher ISO.

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[Jipster]

11 minutes ago, Jack Barry said:

100-6400 = worst designed dial ever

M = Manual ISO sensitivity control 

I always change the ISO using the screen 

Touching this is faster and more pleasant for me than struggling to pull up that stupid dial. 

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You don’t need to pull out the dial more than once at the beginning of a shoot. After that, you can rotate the wheel just like any ISO dial. But, and that’s where it’s genius, you can look it in place if you wish. It’s quite simple and I don’t understand why people harp on something so simple and great.