SL2 Monochrom on the horizon.

[Pelu2010]

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On 10/10/2021 at 6:05 PM, Leicaiste said:

Could somebody point me to a website, a book or an exhibition where I could see some really nice b&w made with any Leica Monochrom ?

1. Alan Schaller : 

http://alanschaller.com/selectedworks

 

[Pelu2010]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:07 AM, frame-it said:

?? what's a Henry M9?

That was the code name for the M9, that Leica used in house 

[Pelu2010]

5 hours ago, Pelu2010 said:

1. Alan Schaller : 

http://alanschaller.com/selectedworks

 

Exhibition depends on where you are located. 

But I would guess that most of the bigger gallerys in bigger towns have a selection of monochrom images made with the Leica. 

This is a book from a German photographer : Peter Haefke 

https://www.thalia.de/shop/home/artikeldetails/A1060582866?ProvID=11000533&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxtSSBhDYARIsAEn0thRdkCuWENxPRYquE6gHynpj2OlxSL7rGy7kJBapHUBtwdqRCDwlOUYaAqxjEALw_wcB

 

And this is one of the websites he operates: 

https://www.fotokreis-pinneberg.de/galerien/fotos-der-mitglieder/peter-haefke.html

 

I have seen his prints live during a workshop. And I can tell you that the prints look very good. 

 

But the best advice I can give you is: rent a camera, ask someone that owns one if you can shoot a weekend with the camera. 

Then process and print some of the prints. 

Take a week and look again at the pictures. And if you want to compare the camera then run the cameras on one shoot together. 

Mark the prints in the back. And then wait. 

You will find out which prints you like more. 

And shoot something you really like. 

cheers Peter 

 

 

[trickness]

So what do we think, was this camera just wishful thinking? I need a back up for my SL2 and was thinking about an SL2-S but I would much rather spend the money on a 47 megapixel Bayer filterless BSI sensor SL2-M. Sigh…..

[Stuart Richardson]

The Q2M is your closest option at the moment. Hope you like 28mm!

[trickness]

51 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The Q2M is your closest option at the moment. Hope you like 28mm!

I have one, its currently in Germany to be repaired - "weather sealed" is quite the exaggeration. 

And compared to the SL2, the Q2M is a toy. A fun toy, with it's own strengths, but the SL2 is a MACHINE. And a monochrom version of the SL would be a beast.

 

 

[matted]

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9 hours ago, trickness said:

So what do we think, was this camera just wishful thinking? I need a back up for my SL2 and was thinking about an SL2-S but I would much rather spend the money on a 47 megapixel Bayer filterless BSI sensor SL2-M. Sigh…..

I don’t think it’s wishful thinking, however if it happens I doubt they would develop a BSI version of the 47 MP sensor. My money would be on either the same bayer-less 47 MP of the Q2 or maybe even the 60 MP BSI from the M11, maybe even in advance of the future 60 MP SL3. Sort of like the M10M preceding the M10R…

[BernardC]

11 hours ago, matted said:

I doubt they would develop a BSI version of the 47 MP sensor.

The 60MP sensor is the evolution of the 47MP sensor.

By the way, are we sure that the 47MP isn't BSI? TowerJazz says that they make BSI sensors. I know that Sony uses BSI as a headline feature, but it's not their technology. They didn't invent it, they weren't first to use it, and they are far from the only source of BSI sensors in the marketplace. They might not even be the biggest supplier of BSI CMOS sensors, but that's mostly down to smart phones, not full-frame cameras.

[matted]

2 minutes ago, BernardC said:

The 60MP sensor is the evolution of the 47MP sensor.

By the way, are we sure that the 47MP isn't BSI? TowerJazz says that they make BSI sensors. I know that Sony uses BSI as a headline feature, but it's not their technology. They didn't invent it, they weren't first to use it, and they are far from the only source of BSI sensors in the marketplace. They might not even be the biggest supplier of BSI CMOS sensors, but that's mostly down to smart phones, not full-frame cameras.

If it were BSI, I would expect them to mention it in the marketing literature, as they do for the SL2-S 24 MP sensor and the M11 60 MP sensor. Of course this doesn't mean that it isn't, but I doubt they would miss an opportunity to throw in a buzzword. 

[BernardC]

30 minutes ago, matted said:

If it were BSI, I would expect them to mention it in the marketing literature, as they do for the SL2-S 24 MP sensor and the M11 60 MP sensor. Of course this doesn't mean that it isn't, but I doubt they would miss an opportunity to throw in a buzzword. 

I don't think that BSI was an internet meme yet when the 47MP came-out. TowerJazz mentions the tech on their web, but I doubt that Leica felt the need to underline this until lately. It reminds me of "fuel injected," "overhead cam," and "turbo" decals on fossil-fuel cars. They aren't differentiators because they are ubiquitous.

Leica is guilty of many things in their marketing, but being buzzword-heavy is not one. They tend to lean more toward myth-making. (Who cares if they made a camera that was used 60 years ago by a famous photographer, really?).

 

[matted]

6 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I don't think that BSI was an internet meme yet when the 47MP came-out. TowerJazz mentions the tech on their web, but I doubt that Leica felt the need to underline this until lately. It reminds me of "fuel injected," "overhead cam," and "turbo" decals on fossil-fuel cars. They aren't differentiators because they are ubiquitous.

Leica is guilty of many things in their marketing, but being buzzword-heavy is not one. They tend to lean more toward myth-making. (Who cares if they made a camera that was used 60 years ago by a famous photographer, really?).

 

Perhaps, you may be right. I wasn't really following Leica at the time the 47 MP sensor was released (no firmware updates for my M4 in 53 years 😭) but there was certainly hype flowing from the Sony camp, and I recall Fuji at least mentioning it during the XT-3 release which preceded the SL2 by about a year. Certainly not meme-levels, you are right.

 

I do not think BSI is the end-all, be-all, but I do enjoy whatever light gathering capability it affords my SL2-S, and it makes a HUGE difference with vignetting and colour casts when using wide angle symmetrical lenses on a technical camera. Actually testing the SL2 vs SL2-S on a technical camera is probably the easiest way to determine if the 47 MP sensor is BSI or not...

[jcatral14]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:07 PM, MrFriendly said:

I read somewhere that Leica is planning to release four cameras in 2022, and they have already released two (M11 and Q2 Monochrom Reporter).  One of the two left has got to be the SL2-Monochrom, I'm praying.  

A friend shared a post by Leica Rumors about a purportedly SL2S Reporter. Maybe that's the third one or even better, an SL2S Reporter Mono 🥰

[hansvons]

6 hours ago, BernardC said:

I don't think that BSI was an internet meme yet when the 47MP came-out. TowerJazz mentions the tech on their web, but I doubt that Leica felt the need to underline this until lately. It reminds me of "fuel injected," "overhead cam," and "turbo" decals on fossil-fuel cars. They aren't differentiators because they are ubiquitous.

Love it! Especially the term fossil fuel cars. So yesterday  

[beewee]

I’m very doubtful the 47MP sensor is BSI. Even if Leica wasn’t big on advertising BSI, it’s pretty much shared sensor tech with the Panasonic S1R and it would be surprising if Panasonic didn’t pitch that feature if it existed. Also the fact that the 47 MP sensor has sub-par dynamic range, it also suggest it’s not a BSI sensor. BSI sensors typically have about 1 stop advantage in dynamic range because of larger photosites, resulting in more efficient in capturing photos that give improved signal to noise ratio, leading to improved dynamic range.

[trickness]

Just now, beewee said:

I’m very doubtful the 47MP sensor is BSI. Even if Leica wasn’t big on advertising BSI, it’s pretty much shared sensor tech with the Panasonic S1R and it would be surprising if Panasonic didn’t pitch that feature if it existed. Also the fact that the 47 MP sensor has sub-par dynamic range, it also suggest it’s not a BSI sensor. BSI sensors typically have about 1 stop advantage in dynamic range because of larger photosites, resulting in more efficient in capturing photos that give improved signal to noise ratio, leading to improved dynamic range.

We are talking about a hypothetical camera that Leica might release…what are you talking about?

[matted]

18 minutes ago, trickness said:

We are talking about a hypothetical camera that Leica might release…what are you talking about?

Above speculation by BernardC that the SL2/Q2 47 MP sensor is already BSI.

[trickness]

2 hours ago, matted said:

Above speculation by BernardC that the SL2/Q2 47 MP sensor is already BSI.

Ahhh. Yeah that supposition makes no sense

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, beewee said:

Also the fact that the 47 MP sensor has sub-par dynamic range, it also suggest it’s not a BSI sensor.

DxO rates it at 14 stops of dynamic range.

[beewee]

4 hours ago, BernardC said:

DxO rates it at 14 stops of dynamic range.

Photonstophotos provide a much deeper insight into dynamic range across different iso and comparison between camera models with the math to back it up. DxO is a black box with mysterious single number that provide little insight on actual performance under specific use cases.

Taking a single number like 14 stops from DxO it is a bit like saying “ it’ll rain next year”. It’s really not that meaningful.

Edited May 6, 2022 by beewee

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[BernardC]

That debate has been hashed-out a few times. In short, no-one has a reliable DR testing strategy, and you can't compare numbers from different sources. What DxO has going for them is that they (presumably) control their testing environment, which should mean that their tests compare to each other. PtP is crowd-sourced, which means that nothing is constant or calibrated: temperature, room illumination, lens, display (the test consists of several shots of a computer monitor), etc. The theory is that these things should even-out with enough tests, but that only applies to popular cameras.

In other words, "14 stops" is just a number. It doesn't mean anything until you compare it to DxO's other numbers. As it turns-out, it is near the top of their DR measurements, which wouldn't make it "sub-par" (depending on your definition or "par", of course). They also found the 47MP sensor to have excellent colour sampling.