80/20 rule for battery charging M240/M262/M-D/M60 ?

[Datsch]

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Lots of stuff on the internet about how a Li-ion battery is happiest and so wears out less when charged to 80% and run down to 20%. Apparently squeezing out the last drop of power and stuffing in the final bit is hard work somehow ...

As my M-D battery is still the original one from 2016  I think I'll give the 80% charge a try -- interspersed with 100 to zero every 4 or 5 times, depending on who you believe ...

After all, Leica must have put the 80% LED on the charger for a reason, right?

However, I just ran mine down to zero today and found it had done 1,006 images on one full charge so it seems the battery is still in pretty great shape ... 😄

Anyone had issues with the older batteries?

[LocalHero1953]

I always assumed that there was an 80% indicator so, if you were in a hurry, you knew you had a usable amount of charge available. I have no evidence for that assumption though. 

[Jean-Michel]

See page 141 to 143 in your manual.

[ECohen]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I always assumed that there was an 80% indicator so, if you were in a hurry, you knew you had a usable amount of charge available. I have no evidence for that assumption though. 

My assumption as well…..also with no evidence.

[Datsch]

8 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

See page 141 to 143 in your manual.

Well the M-D manual only has 113 pages, but I know what you mean and I did read the manual, in fact that was what drove me to look at this because it says:

"The battery should be replaced after a maximum of four years,  as its performance deteriorates and reliable operation can no longer be guaranteed, particularly in cold conditions."

However I see no issues after 5 years and just wonder what best practice is at this point.

Thank you for prompting me to return to the manual though, as I see it does also say full discharge every 25 cycles, rather than 5 as I had surmised:

"A new battery only reaches its full capacity after it has been fully
charged and – by use in the camera - discharged again 2 or 3
times. This discharge procedure should be repeated every 25
cycles. "

 

Whatever, it seems that as there are no stories of unreliability emerging on this thread we might assume that people find the 14 499 battery to be very solid, robust and long lasting ...

Now the question is: is it worth getting a spare for the future in case Leica stop making it? Will a new one that I keep in a box in my cupboard for next 5 years still be fresh and ready to go once charged in 2026?

[EDIT] I can see that even batteries for the M8/M9 are still available and in stock in several of my favourite local retailers, so I think I can safely put this question on the back burner for a year or two ... 🙃

Edited September 14, 2021 by Datsch

[jaapv]

And I still have a number of M8 and M9 batteries that perform well after more than a decade. Read that sentence as a liability disclaimer.

[LocalHero1953]

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The instruction to fully discharge your batteries every 25 cycles and replace them after 4 years applies only to those who count their socks.

[Jean-Michel]

I always carry a spare battery on more than one-day outings, so if a battery goes dead, a fresh one is available. Anyway, I always fully charge the batteries and they do last quite some years: my two M9 batteries purchased in 2011 still work as new, so the M-P batteries from 2016. Even my Canon 5d2 2009 batteries still hold full charges. Pretty good technology!

Edited September 14, 2021 by Jean-Michel
typos

[pgk]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

And I still have a number of M8 and M9 batteries that perform well after more than a decade. Read that sentence as a liability disclaimer.

One of mine has died and I lost one. Other than that all my M8/9 bateries still perform perfectly adequately and some are from the M8. I ususally run them until the low battery warning and then charge to full.

[pippy]

53 minutes ago, pgk said:

...all my M8/9 bateries still perform perfectly adequately and some are from the M8. I ususally run them until the low battery warning and then charge to full...

Same here and I, too, have some from my M8 days. I did have one die on me not long after it came to me but as it came bundled with a s/h body I've no idea how well it was treated by the previous owner.

5 hours ago, Datsch said:

...the question is: is it worth getting a spare for the future in case Leica stop making it? Will a new one that I keep in a box in my cupboard for next 5 years still be fresh and ready to go once charged in 2026?...

As far as the M-D's battery is concerned I've never even gotten close to having it lose its charge and even although I've never run it to zero it still seems to hold its charge perfectly well. I do occasionally consider picking up a spare - once longer holidays can once more become 'the norm' - and, were I to do so, I would try to use the batteries in rotation which should help keep them properly conditioned.

Philip.

[Camaro5]

5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The instruction to fully discharge your batteries every 25 cycles and replace them after 4 years applies only to those who count their socks.

Well there probably are people out there that keep track of that stuff.  I've always heard that Li-ion batteries had no memory and could be recharged at any level.  The only caveat was that they shouldn't be run all the way down because the internal cell could crystalize.  I'm not saying Leica is wrong but their advice doesn't seem very practical for the average person.  

I just use mine and charge them when they need it.  When they don't charge anymore, just get new ones.  

[Wayben]

I'm with the charge them to 100% when needed and use til they die crowd.  I only remember a couple batteries actually dying on me and both of those were very old.  Knock on wood.

[grahamc]

My MD seems to be a 2016 delivery and the battery lasts weeks / months

 

[marchyman]

On 9/13/2021 at 2:03 PM, Datsch said:

Anyone had issues with the older batteries?

Had to replace an M 262 battery when the camera said a fully charged battery didn't have enough juice to allow a software update   The battery was 4 or 5 years old at that point.  For quite a while the camera was reporting that a battery just off the charger had much less than a full charge, but the M 262 is so miserly in its power use that the reduced battery charge didn't bother me all that much.

[plaidshirts]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:00 AM, Datsch said:

Well the M-D manual only has 113 pages, but I know what you mean and I did read the manual, in fact that was what drove me to look at this because it says:

"The battery should be replaced after a maximum of four years,  as its performance deteriorates and reliable operation can no longer be guaranteed, particularly in cold conditions."

However I see no issues after 5 years and just wonder what best practice is at this point.

Thank you for prompting me to return to the manual though, as I see it does also say full discharge every 25 cycles, rather than 5 as I had surmised:

"A new battery only reaches its full capacity after it has been fully
charged and – by use in the camera - discharged again 2 or 3
times. This discharge procedure should be repeated every 25
cycles. "

 

Whatever, it seems that as there are no stories of unreliability emerging on this thread we might assume that people find the 14 499 battery to be very solid, robust and long lasting ...

Now the question is: is it worth getting a spare for the future in case Leica stop making it? Will a new one that I keep in a box in my cupboard for next 5 years still be fresh and ready to go once charged in 2026?

[EDIT] I can see that even batteries for the M8/M9 are still available and in stock in several of my favourite local retailers, so I think I can safely put this question on the back burner for a year or two ... 🙃

While attempting to discharge fully to hopefully reset my battery, as my 100% in charger showed as only 70% in camera, I have noticed something odd. I could have sworn it was down to 35% the last time I checked about 2 weeks ago. However, yesterday it as at 50%. I thought I had probably misremembered, took a few snaps and left it down to 45%. (The M-D sure is miserly with battery consumption)

So what do I find when I turn it on this morning? Back up to 50%!

Has anyone experienced this? I don't think I've ever seen this in any battery powered device I've owned.

[marchyman]

On 10/10/2021 at 8:21 AM, plaidshirts said:

Has anyone experienced this?

Yes, on other devices. I've not noticed it on my M, but I've never looked for it, either.  Battery life is often estimated by very small changes in supplied voltage.  Those voltage changes can occur with temperature and use.  After moderate use the voltage may drop a touch causing a reduced estimate in charge remaining.  After resting the voltage may recover, making it look like the battery has more life.

Automotive batteries, for example, will build up what is called a surface charge.  The measured voltage will be higher than the voltage under load.  It is recommended to bleed off the surface charge by putting the battery under load before checking the voltage.  I don't know if that applies to Liion batteries, too.

[Herr Barnack]

On 9/14/2021 at 4:21 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

The instruction to fully discharge your batteries every 25 cycles and replace them after 4 years applies only to those who count their socks.

You cannot seriously be making the implication that Leica M users are afflicted with rampant OCD.  There is just no evidence for that claim.

As for me, I own 33 socks...

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Herr Barnack,

I know that trick. 33 socks. All the same. Precisely matched. Precisely lined up & stored in a drawer. When 1 wears out, then all of the socks are re-arranged in terms of which goes better with which. This way you save on socks since they are always all the same. You don't lose an unmatching sock when 1 of a pair wears out.

Best Regards,

Michael

[kivis]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:04 PM, Jean-Michel said:

See page 141 to 143 in your manual.

My manual only goes to 130.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[kivis]

Sorry found the pages