The Gasman’s Dilemma

[pocholin]

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Interesting discussion, I understand @Le Chefdilemma...but I don't understand the "Gasman's" reference...perhaps because English is not my first language or because I'm missing some pop cultural thing...can someone please explain this to me??

[Le Chef]

19 minutes ago, pocholin said:

Interesting discussion, I understand @Le Chefdilemma...but I don't understand the "Gasman's" reference...perhaps because English is not my first language or because I'm missing some pop cultural thing...can someone please explain this to me??

GAS - Gear Acquisition Syndrome

[pocholin]

7 hours ago, Le Chef said:

GAS - Gear Acquisition Syndrome

LOL, we like acronyms in this country too much!  I keep learning something new all the time if your itch is controllable, I'd say wait a few more months to see if a CL2 is finally released, otherwise the Q2 looks very good although you can't swap lenses.

Thank you!

[gotium]

15 hours ago, Michael Markey said:

Having used the CL (23/35/90/55-135) for a number of months recently alongside my SL2S I would , if I were to do it again , go Q2 /SL2S and maybe throw in a GRD for ultra light .

 

What lenses do you use on the SL2-s? Curious about the overlap. And is that 90 with the CL an M-mount?

[SoCalLeicanator]

We should take a survery and start a betting  pool with a yes/no answer and date.  Who thinks the CL-2 is coming?  

I say yes, November 2022.

[Le Chef]

4 hours ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

We should take a survery and start a betting  pool with a yes/no answer and date.  Who thinks the CL-2 is coming?  

I say yes, November 2022.

May 2022

[Michael Markey]

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7 hours ago, gotium said:

What lenses do you use on the SL2-s? Curious about the overlap. And is that 90 with the CL an M-mount?

Firstly ,apologies 'the 90 was a typo ...should have read 60 although I do use a 90 elmarit M on the CL from time to time .

The only full frame lens which I use on the SL at present  is a Panasonic 70 -200 ...... apart from my  M lenses .

Up to now I`ve been debating which direction I should go , in that regard and its probably going to be two of the primes .

I do occasionally use the CL 55 -135 on the SL and despite the small file size I find that focal range ideal for the majority of my purposes .

I take a lot of medium paced action shots and the SL camera is better suited with its tracking AF plus I seem to prefer the files over the CL.

My daughter got married last weekend and I packed the CL with two lenses but felt that a Q2 would have been perhaps more versatile .

[pocholin]

13 hours ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

We should take a survery and start a betting  pool with a yes/no answer and date.  Who thinks the CL-2 is coming?  

I say yes, November 2022.

I say yes, wish for Xmas 2021 but won't happen....probably my mid-2022

[PJ2]

if it’s coming, it will probably be late next year.
I wonder whether Panasonic may offer a full frame rangefinder style body, having seen what Sony has done with its A7c.  That might be interesting….

[wsself]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:33 PM, SoCalLeicanator said:

We should take a survery and start a betting  pool with a yes/no answer and date.  Who thinks the CL-2 is coming?  

I say yes, November 2022.

I have to believe that a CL2 is still on the way. 

There's some speculation out there that the soon to be announced Model 2416 (as per current rumours) will in fact be a CL2 and not an M11. If this turns out to be the case, we're probably looking at a November 2021 announcement. 

[robgo2]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:17 AM, Boojay said:

Haven't seen any rumours since last December.    All seems very quiet on the CL2 front... some thinking there may not be one at all.   I'm wondering if Leica has finished with APS-c, that would be a great shame, still keeping my fingers crossed, although the last thing I need is something else to stretch my photography budget.

As someone who pretty much always has two camera's with me, whatever I'm doing, I quite understand @Le ChefGAS, though I prefer a FF option alongside the CL, usually an M, sometimes analogue.

If you are sure you don't want to go down the M or SL Route, then of course there are the Panasonic offerings S5 or Sigma Fp/FpL for example, only one with true IBIS is the S5, but Q if you like 28mm seems the most obvious.   Not sure why I'm prattling on, I'm sure you have thought of all of the options, it's the wait to see if there is going to be a CL2 that is the problem.  Some bargains on used TL2's around. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I share the concern that Leica may have decided to abandon the APS-C format, meaning that there will be no CL2. The biggest red flag for me is the complete absence of new TL lenses in god-only-knows how long. I had always conceived of the CL/TL lines as entry level cameras at "affordable" prices for the entire Leica ecosystem, but perhaps Leica now feels that the Q cameras fill that role. Of course, this is just speculation on my part, and I hope to be proven wrong, but I have determined not to purchase any TL lenses until the future of the CL has been revealed.

Edited September 22, 2021 by robgo2

[Le Chef]

22 minutes ago, robgo2 said:

I share the concern that Leica may have decided to abandon the APS-C format, meaning that there will be no CL2. The biggest red flag for me is the complete absence of new TL lenses in god-only-knows how long. I had always conceived of the CL/TL lines as entry level cameras at "affordable" prices for the entire Leica ecosystem, but perhaps Leica now feels that the Q cameras fill that role. Of course, this is just speculation on my part, and I hope to be proven wrong, but I have determined not to purchase any TL lenses until the future of the CL has been revealed.

I think when you look at the 3rd party lenses launched since the L-Alliance was announced that tells you those partners see potential for growth. I do not see what new, economically viable lenses Leica could launch, considering the number of T/TL/ TL2/CL cameras out in the market place and what TL compatible lenses are already available. This is different from the M line of cameras which has used the same mount for generations. There new lenses may be viable at higher price points and small volumes.

It does not mean the market isn’t viable for a Leica TL lens mount camera, just not two cameras viable. I would be surprised if there was no CL2, but then I try to see the world glass half full.

[robgo2]

4 hours ago, Le Chef said:

I think when you look at the 3rd party lenses launched since the L-Alliance was announced that tells you those partners see potential for growth. I do not see what new, economically viable lenses Leica could launch, considering the number of T/TL/ TL2/CL cameras out in the market place and what TL compatible lenses are already available. This is different from the M line of cameras which has used the same mount for generations. There new lenses may be viable at higher price points and small volumes.

It does not mean the market isn’t viable for a Leica TL lens mount camera, just not two cameras viable. I would be surprised if there was no CL2, but then I try to see the world glass half full.

Almost certainly, the TL/TL2 line is finished.  It was always gimmicky and not what Leicaphiles crave. The CL is a more traditional and substantial camera, and I feel that a seriously upgraded CL2 would attract significant interest. As most of us CL owners know, APS-C sensors have come a long way over the past ten years, and its not easy to distinguish their output from FF sensors, except in low light situations (and excluding DOF).

As for new Leica lenses for TL mount cameras, lenses are always where Leica has made the most money. Why would they cede that ground to third party manufacturers?

Edited September 22, 2021 by robgo2

[gotium]

5 hours ago, Le Chef said:

I do not see what new, economically viable lenses Leica could launch, considering the number of T/TL/ TL2/CL cameras out in the market place and what TL compatible lenses are already available. 

I'd like to see portrait and quality fast wide-angle primes. They might see more CL cameras sold if they offered those. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by gotium

[Simone_DF]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:22 PM, Le Chef said:

I do not see what new, economically viable lenses Leica could launch

a 35mm F2 Summicron, which is one the most popular (if not THE most popular) Leica lens for many, many users among the various Leica platforms? The absence of this "default" lens is for me the biggest red flag.

On the CL your only option is to go for the Lux.

Anyway, Nokishita leaked a new APS-C zoom lens from Sigma, the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 DC DN 

As always, it will be released for Sony E mount and L mount. Basically they just have to change the lens mount on a bunch of leftover E mount lenses, so at least for me, the red flag remains until Leica themselves releases some new lens.

https://twitter.com/nokishita_c

Edited September 24, 2021 by Simone_DF

[wda]

17 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

a 35mm F2 Summicron, which is one the most popular (if not THE most popular) Leica lens for many, many users among the various Leica platforms? The absence of this "default" lens is for me the biggest red flag.

On the CL your only option is to go for the Lux.

Anyway, Nokishita leaked a new APS-C zoom lens from Sigma, the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 DC DN 

As always, it will be released for Sony E mount and L mount. Basically they just have to change the lens mount on a bunch of leftover E mount lenses, so at least for me, the red flag remains until Leica themselves releases some new lens.

https://twitter.com/nokishita_c

But a 35mm lens would no longer be a 35mm effective focal-length on a CL. 24mm, perhaps?

[Simone_DF]

33 minutes ago, wda said:

But a 35mm lens would no longer be a 35mm effective focal-length on a CL. 24mm, perhaps?

You're right, but it still doesn't change the fact that there's no 50mm F2 equivalent for the CL, the only option is still the Lux

[robgo2]

2 hours ago, wda said:

But a 35mm lens would no longer be a 35mm effective focal-length on a CL. 24mm, perhaps?

Perhaps you have forgotten about the Summicron-TL 23 f/2, which is effectively 35mm on the CL. I have found it to be an excellent lens, not quite at the level of the Summilux-TL 35, but not far behind either. I have a Summicron-M 35 f/2 ASPH that I used on an SL, and I think that the TL-23 gives it a run for its money.

[SoCalLeicanator]

3 hours ago, robgo2 said:

Perhaps you have forgotten about the Summicron-TL 23 f/2, which is effectively 35mm on the CL. I have found it to be an excellent lens, not quite at the level of the Summilux-TL 35, but not far behind either. I have a Summicron-M 35 f/2 ASPH that I used on an SL, and I think that the TL-23 gives it a run for its money.

Agreed, there is bit of a learning curve on this lens, but it really shines for a compact package.  For 50mm equivalents, there is the color Skopar 2.5 that I am enjoying as well.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[thedruid]

I'd go another CL body used, but I 'm feeling the CL line is done, I have not seen any rumors in quite a while. The new Leica camera mentioned above, 2416 is more likely the M11 than CL2. APSc is getting harder and harder to justify as we see cheaper FF bodies emerge, the size argument is gone for the most part, see the Sony A7c, it's smaller than the CL. Leica seems happy to be a boutique company churning out various M's, Q's and SL's... A new CL2 body would cost how much $3000-3400?