The perpetual question of colour, b/w and heavy pp

[01maciel]

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I created two versions of a street scene- one in colour, and another one in b/w with heavy post processing. Both are quite nice imho but I can't decide which is nicer. Which one pleases your eyes and why? Appreciate you comments.

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[01maciel]

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[prk60091]

the b&w version...

 

I am not a fan of the washed out color look that seems to be all the rage

I was not a fan of high contrast b&w images until this weekend when I processed some b&w film negatives and took them high contrast..

[Guest]

Here I prefer the color image, as it shows more details than the much too hard black and white processing.

[LocalHero1953]

What do you want your image to do?

High contrast B&W is fine for a striking image that works in a pictorialist way, but not if you're trying to tell a story where the reader needs to look at different elements and work out what they mean. I suspect you're trying to tell a story about the musician, the onlooker and the window display, and I find the high contrast B&W treatment unhelpful and distracting. On the other hand I don't particularly like the colour in the first one (a creamy yellow cast) and the colour advert on the left draws your eye away from where the story is. If the original image is also high contrast, which I suspect it is, I think you're working with difficult materials! By framing the image without the left hand portion, and using a smaller aperture to get everything in focus (should be easy with so much light), it would look better balanced as an image and as a coherent story.

Sorry to be so negative!

Edited August 24, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[01maciel]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb prk60091:

I am not a fan of the washed out color look that seems to be all the rage

 

vor 22 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

On the other hand I don't particularly like the colour in the first one (a creamy yellow cast)

Thanks for your comments on this. Re the first photo: I didn't change any of the colours or white balance. Instead I added some local contrast to underline the pale colours. The creamy yellow cast is caused by a low sun (long shadows at around 5pm) and of course the old Jupiter-3.

vor 43 Minuten schrieb prk60091:

the b&w version...

Well, after staring a minute or so at both photos I tend to prefer the b/w too as it reduces the scene to the fun having people in contrast to the elderly gentleman sitting in his walking aid watching what's going on. On the other hand I like the oldish colour rendering of the J-3 lens very much.

[lct]

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Nice pic but i would redo the BW conversion.
Like this perhaps?
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R8sqwqV/0/58ad799e/X4/i-R8sqwqV-X4.jpg

[250swb]

You are trying to hard with the B&W version, but all things considered it has more potential than the colour version. And the DOF is so 'fashionably shallow' the relationship between the foreground figure and the man in the wheelchair is lost. And also crop the acres of space on the left whereby the guitar player will look more like he has turned his back to the gesticulating man in the chair especially considering the youthful scene behind them. So a more powerful scene youth vs age etc. or whatever. I mean, just look where that poster woman's hand rests, on top of the old mans head, but it's so OOF the possible significance is degraded. Oh what an image you'd have had at f/8

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Edited August 24, 2021 by 250swb

[wda]

20 minutes ago, 250swb said:

You are trying to hard with the B&W version, but all things considered it has more potential than the colour version. And the DOF is so 'fashionably shallow' the relationship between the foreground figure and the man in the wheelchair is lost. And also crop the acres of space on the left whereby the guitar player will look more like he has turned his back to the gesticulating man in the chair especially considering the youthful scene behind them. So a more powerful scene youth vs age etc. or whatever. I mean, just look where that poster woman's hand rests, on top of the old mans head, but it's so OOF the possible significance is degraded. Oh what an image you'd have had at f/8

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The vertical door lines spoil it for me. Sorry.

[prk60091]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Nice pic but i would redo the BW conversion.
Like this perhaps?
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R8sqwqV/0/58ad799e/X4/i-R8sqwqV-X4.jpg

I like this rendering- alot

 

 

[lct]

45 minutes ago, prk60091 said:

I like this rendering- alot

Just default settings of Silver Efex Pro 2.

[Guest BlackBarn]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

And also crop the acres of space on the left

I would tend to agree with this…….if the visual conversation between the performer the gentleman and the poster -  is what attracted you to take the photo. Maybe a useful first question  to consider -  not b/w vs colour in post - but what is the moment I am wanting to describe?

If the crop/reframing before you shoot  makes more sense  - but you don’t like the vertical door frame - then may be that is what you decide  to work on in post.

As it stands I think the B/W version breaks  the link in my reading of the visual conversation due to the high contrast. On the colour version it’s colour in the space on the left of the performer which distracts my eye away from the sense of the moment. It may also be worth considering  - that one sidestep to the right would have framed the performer visually inside the door frame which may or may not have been something which would have interested you.

Regardless it’s a great shot 

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[lct]

Matter of tastes. I would not crop nor correct anything in this good pic besides BW conversion. HCB and other masters did not care much about distortion. You may try to adjust it but it would crop the frame more or less and the young guy would appear closer. YMMV.

[prk60091]

56 minutes ago, lct said:

Matter of tastes. I would not crop nor correct anything in this good pic besides BW conversion. HCB and other masters did not care much about distortion. You may try to adjust it but it would crop the frame more or less and the young guy would appear closer. YMMV.

to my eye the framing as shot is good. as cropped by blackbarn above it is a different story and different image- not as pleasing to my eye==.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Matter of tastes. I would not crop nor correct anything in this good pic besides BW conversion. HCB and other masters did not care much about distortion. You may try to adjust it but it would crop the frame more or less and the young guy would appear closer. YMMV.

Yes it is entirely a matter of taste, but HCB did care about narrative, and developing a narrative within the photo can be a reason to change from colour to B&W. For both photographer and viewer it's about discovering the story within the photograph. 

As an example high contrast B&W says something different from low contrast, so choose one or the other to follow the narrative within the photo, but first the narrative needs working out. I simply think the OP's decision, colour vs. B&W, is putting the cart before the horse, first decide what the photo is saying, then choose the best way to deliver it.

[lct]

26 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Yes it is entirely a matter of taste, but HCB did care about narrative [...] I simply think the OP's decision, colour vs. B&W, is putting the cart before the horse, first decide what the photo is saying, then choose the best way to deliver it.

HCB did care about composition in the first place and was not interested in color as you know. Here i find the OP's composition quite good but i would be unable to explain it otherwise than by referring to my own taste sorry. 

[Herr Barnack]

@01maciel Of the two, I prefer the color version.  The colors are not washed out looking (to my eye); they are reminiscent of Kodachrome. 

The first B&W version is way too over processed to my eye.  I am all in favor of contrasty B&W images, but this one is a bridge too far - to my eye.  @250swb's version is an improvement, but it too is a bit harsh - to my eye.  The version shown by @lct in post #7 appeals the most to me.

I have to reluctantly agree with @wda who said, "The vertical door lines spoil it for me. Sorry."  If the door lines could be removed in post without appearing obvious, it would do the image a great service IMO.

 

[250swb]

4 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

. @250swb's version is an improvement, but it too is a bit harsh - to my eye.

 

It is too harsh for my taste as well, but the OP was looking at trying high contrast. I think adding some grain would help the man in the wheelchair and the image overall, it gives a visual 'bite' to bare or OOF areas, and this could go on forever, but here is version 2 which addresses the door and the contrast, so this is Tri-X printed on Agfa Record Rapid

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[Gerbs]

I prefer the color version because it lets me participate in the scene more as a viewer. There's really only two things that bother me in this street scene: the chopped off bright orange (donation container?) thing at his feet is just too eye catching in a bad way, and the fact that he is tuning and not playing. The "crowd" in the window smiling and all makes a better reaction story if the musician is actually playing, I think.

The B&W version becomes annoying, the lights above the musician are distracting, his legs disappear into the background so he is like a legless floating musician out of Ghostbusters or something, and the high contrast doesn't add to the story for me; it seems to destroy rhythms and flatten the image, and only magnifies composition problems because it becomes so graphic. An almost purely graphic image needs to have excellent flow and rhythm just in the graphics, else the story is lost.

To my eye.

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[01maciel]

As time goes by my taste changes I have to admit. Thanks so far for all your time and effort. @Gerbs is right when he says "The B&W version becomes annoying..." That's right, imho. I exaggerated the b/w pp - way over the top.

Almost all my photos, I reckon 99%, I have posted here were not cropped as I 'hate' (= dislike) cropped photos. They are just straightened and cut if necessary. Why? Because they just look like cropped photos and do not seem to be authentic. But again it is all matter of taste:) Don't forget. Which means in turn for the busker and his team that I wouldn't crop the original photo without an appropriate reason.