Leica lens mount on M3 stored for half a century - is it a good idea to use a very tiny bit of oil on the surface?

[Pelu2010]

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On 8/17/2021 at 4:19 AM, MikeMyers said:

I suspect I should send my old Leica M3 in for a clean and lube, but I have a simple question to ask here.  When I mount lenses and remove them from the camera, there is more friction than with my newer Leica cameras.  I suspect that the tiniest amount of very light oil would correct that - applied with a tiny tube, and wiping most of it off with a paper towel.  Is this a safe thing to do?

The camera has been sitting like that with a 50mm collapsible Summicron lens attached, for at least 50 years.  I can see areas that look like they are slightly "stained", near the lens release button.

As far as I can tell, the camera is working well, and I haven't tried any of my other lenses on it.  I have a feeling I "think" differently than many years ago, and to my mind.a 35mm lens is my current "normal" lens.  If that's the case, I guess I need to dust off my old M2, or use a separate finder on top, instead of my Leicameter......

I would polish the surface first. Very gently. But to get it right I would suggest you ask someone that repairs Kameras. 

[AndreasG]

Leica recommends Vaseline as lubricant, see the M10 manual:

• The bayonet is lubricated ex works with an ultra fine grease film to ensure smooth lens changes. Under normal conditions, this lubrication will remain intact for many years and even if the bayonet is wiped clean from time to time. The lubrication will have to be renewed after a degreasing agent was used for cleaning. Simply dab a bit of Vaseline onto the bayonet with you finger and use a clean cloth to rub it evenly and thinly all over.

[MikeMyers]

3 hours ago, Mute-on said:

As for your M3, good on you for revitalising your interest and getting the old girl back up and running. Most importantly, enjoy!

Hey, I smiled when I read your post. There is no logical reason I can think of for my desire to get my M3 working again, and my shooting film again, along with scanning negatives.  Why use a 1950's camera when I've got one of the latest models?   But the last thing you wrote, "Most importantly, enjoy!" says it all.  I enjoy going out there with the camera I used as a kid, with no automation, no battery, no electronics.....   other than the meter on top of it.  It weighs a ton, too.  But I get an enjoyment out of doing so, sort of like how I enjoy a great meal.

I was taught the camera doesn't matter, it's the photographs that matter.  But that is wrong.  The camera DOES matter, as with only 24 (or 36) photos on a roll of film, not thousands of digital photos on a memory card, I am MUCH more selective.  With digital, I can "spray and prey".  One of those images might be good....  but with film, I work a lot harder to make every single image count.  Then too, with digital I know instantly what I did, while with film it's likely going to be a week before I find out.  With cameras like the old Leica, or even the old view cameras that my photographic heroes used to shoot with, the camera did make a difference for capturing images.

I guess I should add that I have accumulated a nice collection of Leica books over the years, and they make the Leica sound more like a "pet" than a "machine".  They give the camera and lenses a personality.  The book "The Leica and the Leica System" by Theo M. Scheerer is a great example of this.

(None of the above means I am losing interest in my M10 or my Nikon kit - if someone asked me to take a photo, I'd use one of them, as I'd be assured the photo would come out properly.  With my M3, there's still a bit of mystery, none of which existed half a century ago when the M3 was my daily tool for photography, but that says more about me than about the camera.  My M10 is a sure thing.  My M3 is a challenge.)

[MikeMyers]

3 hours ago, AndreasG said:

Leica recommends Vaseline as lubricant, see the M10 manual:

• The bayonet is lubricated ex works with an ultra fine grease film to ensure smooth lens changes. Under normal conditions, this lubrication will remain intact for many years and even if the bayonet is wiped clean from time to time. The lubrication will have to be renewed after a degreasing agent was used for cleaning. Simply dab a bit of Vaseline onto the bayonet with you finger and use a clean cloth to rub it evenly and thinly all over.

What page is this on?  I'd like to see it with my own eyes, in the M10 manual, but once I do, despite four pages of discussion on this topic, I see no reason not to try it.  That is exactly the problem that prompted me to post this discussion - "to ensure smooth lens changes".

[AndreasG]

P66/67 of the M10-D Manual, see attached pdf.

 

Leica Manual M10.pdf

[MikeMyers]

10 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

P66/67 of the M10-D Manual, see attached pdf.

 

Leica Manual M10.pdf 731.93 kB · 1 download

Fascinating....    I've noticed two things.  First, that wording does not show in my "Leica M10 Instructions".  I'm on page 202, and it looks like a lot of information was added to the M10-D Manual compared to what I have in my own manual.  I wonder why??????  

I've also realized that I need to take some time, and read this whole manual, beginning to end.  Typically I look up things and read small sections, but to be honest, I've gotten in the habit of learning most things from "the internet".  These printed instructions are MUCH better than what I remember fro the past.  Leica did a great job here.  

I wonder why the added all this information to the newest manual like this.  Thank you for noticing, and posting.

Just a side comment - what I looked at was on page 66.  The information (cautions, etc.) is on page 67.  People need to read the cautions on page 67, before acting on the information on page 66.

 

I usually take one of my books to read cover to cover when I'm traveling.  I can see now that I ought to read this entire user manual, and find out what else I've missed.

Gee, just when everything was done and finished with, you've turned the apple cart over again, and we're back to where we started, but this time with written instructions from Leica as to maintenance.

[AndreasG]

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That is strange indeed, I also compared the M10 with the M10-D manual right now and indeed the information about "greasing" is not included, anyway, I am happy that my finding could help you. Usually, I am not the guy who reads manuals, for me, it is a process of learning by doing, only in case of trouble I check the manual. A camera that is not self-explaining is no camera for me.

[MikeMyers]

I shouldn't be asking this, but I'm thinking, what is the difference between a Leica M-10 and an M-10-D ??  If more information was added to the M-10-D manual in one place, how many other places have been improved or expanded?  Perhaps I should be reading the newer manual, not my own?  I've lost track of all the variants.  To me, they were all just an "M-10".  If someone at Leica has found the time to expand on what's been written in the manual, maybe I want the latest version of the manual to work with.  I've also got my M-8 manual to look over later.

Regardless, thank you for noticing, and posting!  I don't see how anyone can argue with following what's written in the official user's manual, but there are a lot of people who already posted in this thread who are going to be rather surprised when they find this.   🙂

[Matlock]

56 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

P66/67 of the M10-D Manual, see attached pdf.

 

Leica Manual M10.pdf 731.93 kB · 5 downloads

That instruction is included only in the M10-D Manual. It is not in the M10 Manual and has been removed in the M10-R Manual. Also it only applies if a degreasing agent  has been used.

[Matlock]

17 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

I shouldn't be asking this, but I'm thinking, what is the difference between a Leica M-10 and an M-10-D ??  If more information was added to the M-10-D manual in one place, how many other places have been improved or expanded?  Perhaps I should be reading the newer manual, not my own?  I've lost track of all the variants.  To me, they were all just an "M-10".  If someone at Leica has found the time to expand on what's been written in the manual, maybe I want the latest version of the manual to work with.  I've also got my M-8 manual to look over later.

Regardless, thank you for noticing, and posting!  I don't see how anyone can argue with following what's written in the official user's manual, but there are a lot of people who already posted in this thread who are going to be rather surprised when they find this.   🙂

That instruction is included only in the M10-D Manual. It is not in the M10 Manual and has been removed in the M10-R Manual. Also it only applies if a degreasing agent  has been used.

[MikeMyers]

3 minutes ago, Matlock said:

That instruction is included only in the M10-D Manual. It is not in the M10 Manual and has been removed in the M10-R Manual.

Hey, so the guys at Leica who create these manuals are just as confused as we are!   Lots of different opinions on the same subject.  

Time for me to put away my computer, and after going out for a walk with my M3, to go make a delicious breakfast.

[Matlock]

2 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Hey, so the guys at Leica who create these manuals are just as confused as we are!   Lots of different opinions on the same subject.  

Time for me to put away my computer, and after going out for a walk with my M3, to go make a delicious breakfast.

Confusion reigns. Breakfast sounds good but I had mine about 8 hours ago 🙂

[earleygallery]

42 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

I don't see how anyone can argue with following what's written in the official user's manual, but there are a lot of people who already posted in this thread who are going to be rather surprised when they find this.   🙂

You should call Don back and tell him he was wrong too!

I still don't think I've ever had a camera with grease/oil on the bayonet mount - maybe the latest M's use a different material? They appear to be less chrome like than other cameras. Perhaps that is the issue.

[wattsy]

As far as I know the advice about occasionally (if necessary) putting a tiny dab of Vaseline on the lens bayonet has been in Leica lens manuals for decades.

 I was going to mention it earlier but the thread got caught up in the usual shenanigans.

Edited August 20, 2021 by wattsy

[250swb]

We shouldn't forget the original question regarding lube was for an M3 which has a bright hard chrome lens mount, but modern Leica's have a dull finish that isn't chromed. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by 250swb

[MikeMyers]

You know, this thread has been going on for a week, when I've been messing with the M3 quite a bit, mounting and de-mounting different lenses, and finally finishing the roll of film I had in the camera.  I did as Don suggested, and looked into the camera with the back open, and while I did see a lot of "stuff", it wasn't obvious what it did - but Don's suggestion that the spring-loaded mounting plate makes a lot of sense, as it holds the lens firmly against that mounting plate.  I noticed something else, too.  The same 50mm collapsible Summicron that has been on the camera for most of this time now goes on and off as if I DID lubricate the surface - smoothly, but with zero "play".  It does NOT feel like it did a week ago, and right now it's completely smooth.

If cameras could be happy or not, I figure this is now a "happy camera", working just as it's supposed to.  .....and if cameras had that kind of intelligence, it would probably be frustrated with me, for my lack of focusing or forgetting to remove the lens cap when I'm in a hurry.

I think this thread is now finished.  I learned a lot from it.  Thank you all!

Edited August 20, 2021 by MikeMyers

[Vlad Soare]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:58 PM, MikeMyers said:

One of you is going to eventually ask me "why on earth are you spending all this time on an ancient M3 when you have an M10?"

Actually, my question would be why on earth you'd buy an M10 when you have an M3. 🙂

Edited August 21, 2021 by Vlad Soare

[earleygallery]

21 hours ago, wattsy said:

As far as I know the advice about occasionally (if necessary) putting a tiny dab of Vaseline on the lens bayonet has been in Leica lens manuals for decades.

 I was going to mention it earlier but the thread got caught up in the usual shenanigans.

Not in my M2 manual.......although it does suggest the use of a UV filter to protect the lens and avoid having to clean it too much!

[MikeMyers]

4 hours ago, Vlad Soare said:

Actually, my question would be why on earth you'd buy an M10 when you have an M3. 🙂

I seriously would have laughed at what you wrote, up until around 10pm last night.  That's when I tried to emulate a few things from the video I just copied below.  Being in a rather relaxed state of mind, about ready to go to sleep, I picked up the M3, put the viewfinder in front of my right eye, and walked around my room using both eyes.  Something magical happened, I could see just about everything in front of me, with the brilliant viewfinder at my right eye matching what I was seeing with my left eye, and the frame lines in the viewfinder told me how much of what I saw was going to be captured on the image.

After several minutes, I put everything away, and after watching the whole video I went to sleep, feeling a little confused.  Do I really want to have all the information shown to me in the M10 viewfinder?  Isn't it detracting from the most important things in the M3 viewfinder, the IMAGE of what was going to be captured on the film frame, and the focus?  The more I thought about this, the more confused I got.

 

......and along with this, why is it that a Leica M10 is available from lots of sources right now, and anyone can have one of the different variations after spending ten minutes on a computer, but the latest Leica film camera, with NO electronics and no battery, is only available on a "waiting list".  Why is the value of an M3 climbing every few weeks, while the value of an M10 is dropping.  Last night I got curious and went looking - for someone who wants to buy a film Leica today, it's pretty slim pickings.

 

None of this has anything to do with this discussion thread, but as I said elsewhere, my camera must have been "listening", because after using my old M3 for a while, the problem described in this thread has vanished.  Just "using it" seems to have "fixed it", no oil, no Vaseline, no nothing, just using the camera.....

 

 

 

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[Matlock]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

 

 

 Just "using it" seems to have "fixed it", no oil, no Vaseline, no nothing, just using the camera.....

 

You hit the nail on the head Mike. That's what cameras are designed for. Using a camera is much better than the frequent CLAs that some seem to advocate.