Is it worth buying analogue in 2021

[Giguchan]

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Hey Ray,

Thanks for the reply. 

According to the seller the VAT is supposed to be included in the price as marked.

My Question  the "import duty" that you speak of is that the same  as VAT/Tariff Tax?

Another thing that concerns me..  would this Camera be considered "Gray Market"?

Thanks.

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[wattsy]

4 hours ago, Giguchan said:

According to the seller the VAT is supposed to be included in the price as marked.

My Question  the "import duty" that you speak of is that the same  as VAT/Tariff Tax?

Another thing that concerns me..  would this Camera be considered "Gray Market"?

Thanks.

If the seller is in Germany and exporting to the USA (or indeed anywhere outside the EU), the goods should be sold free of German VAT. Import duty is another matter altogether and is levied by the country in to which the goods are being imported. In many countries, local VAT/sales tax would also be added at this point though I don't know whether that is the case in the USA. The camera would only be grey market in the traditional sense if it is sold by a dealer that is not an authorised Leica retailer. Having said that, Leica USA may have a policy of only honouring the warranty on Leica goods officially imported into the USA (you would need to check). In that scenario, you'd have to send the camera to Wetzlar for service/repair.

Edited October 1, 2021 by wattsy

[RayD28]

5 hours ago, Giguchan said:

Hey Ray,

Thanks for the reply. 

According to the seller the VAT is supposed to be included in the price as marked.

My Question  the "import duty" that you speak of is that the same  as VAT/Tariff Tax?

Another thing that concerns me..  would this Camera be considered "Gray Market"?

Thanks.

No VAT.  It was a USA tariff tax.  It wasn't much but surprised me since it was an analogue camera but it did have an electronic light meter.  As far as the camera being "gray market", it was used and bought from a reputable Netherlands dealer so was not a concern.  I recall reading somewhere on here that the gray market issue, which I believe is a common concern with Nikons and Cannons, is not a concern with Leica's.  Don't quote me on that because I don't know for certain.  

If the seller is in Germany and said VAT is included I'd be concerned.  Like Wattsy says, VAT is not applicable to exports to the USA and the seller might be disguising a markup in price.  

[Giguchan]

Hello,

  Thanks for the replies..  I'm going to find out how much  ANY extra Fee's  are.  I normally  would not go this route but the seller in this case

according to the people on this Boards ARE  trustworthy and have lots of  Good F/B.  The Price IS a tad higher with this German seller( we all know who it is by now) as someone already pointed out.  I'm going to contact  them and ask more questions.

 I will report back with my findings  THANK YOU for all of the  replies.

 

[Anthony Miller]

As I recall USA import duties depend on the total value and often which carrier transports it. I think with the postal service values under $1200 (possibly) are duty free. With UPS however I have always got hit with at least a processing or customs clearance fee. My state also occasionally monitors customs clearances and adds a sales or usage tax.  

It has been many years since I have imported anything over $700 so rules may have changed. 

[edstock]

I started with film in the '70's and have never stopped. That said, I have shot digital for professional reasons. Now I have no restrictions on me and I love film. My three M's, M4-P, M6 and M7 are all alive and well.

Edited October 2, 2021 by edstock
typo

[Giguchan]

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Thanks  Folks.

  I'm leaning  toward  the "Local" dealer.   The  Camera  looks to have been well taken care of.  while it's  $200  less than a Brand new model  that  tells me that in the sellers eyes it must be worth it.

 Thanks  for all of the help in this matter.

[a.noctilux]

Local dealer is most of time my choice.

When problems arise, I know who to talk to.

Even with USD200 less than new, but available asap.

 

What is your camera choice, then ?

[rk-d]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:18 AM, Giguchan said:

  Thank you...   for the reply...  I prefer silver. I will have a look at their site though!

 Thanks.

There appears to be a black MP available in Hodinkee's shop (this is a fine watch website, but also sells Leica).  

https://shop.hodinkee.com/collections/photography

I got mine from a Leica boutique. They had one in the back that let me buy. I suspect other Leica stores do this. 

It's interesting comparing the MP to my M6. The viewfinder is brighter and the focus patch seems a little sharper and easier to nail focus. 

The body is obviously heavier feeling as well. The black paint is pretty, though smudges much easier. Not sure if I like it better than the old style matte paint, though the M6 wears into its silvery magnesium which is not nearly as pretty as the brass that the MP will wear into. The ISO switch on the MP is difficult to move compared to the M6. 

I have enjoyed the MP so far - the weight is very nice. It feels like a solid chunk of brass. I bought a new 50mm Summilux to go with it and it is a really nice, tactile lens. I'm looking forward to seeing the output from this combo.

I recently had found a pile of old film that I never developed from several years ago. I just got the developed scans back last week. It was full of images of my daughter when she was much younger. The film quality had degraded, but these were pics that I obviously had never seen. It was like finding a time capsule. Seeing pictures of my wife and daughter from that time - it was a gift. The film gives the pictures just a touch of imperfection - that somehow makes them more human. We've looked at these pics at least a dozen times over. 

Stuff like this...that's why I enjoy film. 

[kivis]

5 hours ago, rk-d said:

There appears to be a black MP available in Hodinkee's shop (this is a fine watch website, but also sells Leica).  

https://shop.hodinkee.com/collections/photography

I got mine from a Leica boutique. They had one in the back that let me buy. I suspect other Leica stores do this. 

It's interesting comparing the MP to my M6. The viewfinder is brighter and the focus patch seems a little sharper and easier to nail focus. 

The body is obviously heavier feeling as well. The black paint is pretty, though smudges much easier. Not sure if I like it better than the old style matte paint, though the M6 wears into its silvery magnesium which is not nearly as pretty as the brass that the MP will wear into. The ISO switch on the MP is difficult to move compared to the M6. 

I have enjoyed the MP so far - the weight is very nice. It feels like a solid chunk of brass. I bought a new 50mm Summilux to go with it and it is a really nice, tactile lens. I'm looking forward to seeing the output from this combo.

I recently had found a pile of old film that I never developed from several years ago. I just got the developed scans back last week. It was full of images of my daughter when she was much younger. The film quality had degraded, but these were pics that I obviously had never seen. It was like finding a time capsule. Seeing pictures of my wife and daughter from that time - it was a gift. The film gives the pictures just a touch of imperfection - that somehow makes them more human. We've looked at these pics at least a dozen times over. 

Stuff like this...that's why I enjoy film. 

Often wonder what is inside the Leica mind that decides which black model get black chrome and which one gets black paint?

[MikeMyers]

Don't they toss a coin?

More serious answer, probably depends on what people want to buy, unless it has to what materials they have on hand.

[Giguchan]

All,

  Believe it or not  I found one locally.!  Black Paint to call my very own.    whew!! that was close!

[a.noctilux]

7 hours ago, Giguchan said:

All,

  Believe it or not  I found one locally.!  Black Paint to call my very own.    whew!! that was close!

Miracle arrives while we don't wait for it.

MP- BP x0.72 VF ?

[Giguchan]

Agreed!!

  I mean i had to call but i did find it!!

[a.noctilux]

Out of topic (no answer needed ) ...

I wonder why the ex-owner sell his so soon,

new black MP with 20 months left warrantee, Paris

 

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[wattsy]

37 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I wonder why the ex-owner sell his so soon,

new black MP with 20 months left warrantee, Paris

Probably didn't realise what film is really like.

[IkarusJohn]

Back on topic, is it worth buying analogue in 2021?

When I think back to my pre-Leica/pre-digital days, I have one camera (a Nikon) and at most 3 lenses - my much loved Nikkor 180/2.8 IFED, a mid zoom and the fabulous 14/24 AF-S zoom.  And very happy I was.  I didn’t futz over resolution, corner sharpness, MTF charts or anything but composition.

I’ve been through more Leica lenses and bodies than I can afford, seeking what I consider to be the perfect kit.  I’m pretty confident I’ve got there, with a mix of old and new lenses, a colour M, Monochrom and film bodies.  But is it still about the image?  Back with my film Nikon (I only ever had one at a time), I did some dark room work, had an enlarger and all the trays and other stuff, I found I was mostly photographing either Tri-X or Kodachrome.  I got the processing done professionally, with contact sheets, and printed the few that passed muster.  Not sure where they are now …

With digital, everything has become so complicated, and I’m not at all convinced the output is better.  More of it, but is the composition better?

So where am I at now, and why share this?  I have an SWC sitting on the shelf (but I will use it again, I know); the digital Leicas get used; but it is the M-A I’m missing (it’s having TLC in Wetzlar).  With film, I was raised to be parsimonious - don’t waste film with poor exposure, lazy focusing and half-assed composition.  That’s why I love my M-A.  I meter with a hand-held incident light meter (it’s more accurate), and I enjoy the whole process.

I’ve been lazy with developing (I use a bag), sending film out to be processed, and I then scan, process and save.  Still struggling with the settings on my Plustech, but I’ll get there.  The best will get printed.

So why buy analogue in 2021?  Well, with digital, you can chase the next best thing (the APO 35 Summicron-M, and 60 MP M11, whatever that turns out to be), and dive into the rabbit hole; and I’m sure there lies momentary satisfaction (and poverty).  But you quickly lose the pure pleasure of looking at the light, looking at the scene unfolding, thinking about what and how you might capture what you’re seeing, then raising your much loved camera to your eye, and talking the image.

Edited October 16, 2021 by IkarusJohn

[Prosophos]

16 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

With digital, everything has become so complicated, and I’m not at all convinced the output is better.

It isn't. 

—Peter.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[MikeMyers]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

But you quickly lose the pure pleasure of looking at the light, looking at the scene unfolding, thinking about what and how you might capture what you’re seeing, then raising your much loved camera to your eye, and talking the image.

Why should you lose the pure pleasure as you described, just because your camera is technically better?  

I wouldn't expect my photos to change much, if I were to buy the M11.

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Still struggling with the settings on my Plustech, but I’ll get there.  The best will get printed.

If you'd like to read some. good information on scanning, this is a link to the discussion on how to get the best out of my own Plustek scanner (start at the beginning, and skim through things that don't apply to you):

https://feedback.dxo.com/t/b-w-ilford-hps5-plus-plustek-scan-then-pl4/21228

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Why should you lose the pure pleasure as you described, just because your camera is technically better?  

I wouldn't expect my photos to change much, if I were to buy the M11.

…

I’m not sure my digital cameras are “technically better”.  More complex, certainly; and probably more pixels(?).

Much like you (if I recall correctly), I enjoy the whole process - choosing the camera and lens for an outing; setting the exposure; framing; focusing; and then taking the shot.  The point is the end result. Anything which detracts from that is less satisfying.  With the M-A, what I’m thinking about is the image - I take a reading, set the shutter for the aperture I want, then think about composition.  I actually need to think.  That is the pleasure

If I have my SL & zoom, the whole process is different.  First, remind myself of the camera’s operating system (which dial does what); check the Mode (A or M?); check the ISO; set the aperture; check the shutter speed; see what the camera’s meter is measuring; and what the infernal AF is focusing on, and the zoom for framing.  There’s a lot which gets in the way of the image.  Granted, if I used the SL more, it would be more intuitive, and it has been in the past.

I got the M-A because it had no electronics, and therefore it should last a long time, and it is a similar style of photography to what i started with in the 1960s.  I got the M10-D because it is more film like in use, except that it has a meter.

I’m not that fond of reflective metering.  I appreciate that the M10-D and Monochrom read an average reading of the shutter curtain, but I much prefer incident metering.  I used to do zone metering with a Gossen 1º meter, but that’s a bit of a hassle.

Thanks for the plustech link, Mike.

Edited October 17, 2021 by IkarusJohn