Is it worth buying analogue in 2021

[Reactivestills]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Just now, Matlock said:

What absolute garbage.

Nope. 

[Matlock]

Just now, Reactivestills said:

Nope. 

Yes.

[Reactivestills]

Why would I be on here quoting times for repair before I part with 9.5k 

[Reactivestills]

Just now, Matlock said:

Yes.

Let me find a few repair stories for you and I’ll post them here 

[Matlock]

1 minute ago, Reactivestills said:

Why would I be on here quoting times for repair before I part with 9.5k 

I have no idea. You tell me. I have only had to send one Leica to be worked on and that was a 7 year old used M7. It was away for just over a month and came back as a virtually new camera. As has been stated elsewhere on this thread, perhaps you better get a couple of spare cars, cookers, washing machines etc.

[Matlock]

7 minutes ago, Reactivestills said:

Let me find a few repair stories for you and I’ll post them here 

I have seen most of them. To quote Steve from yesterday "If you listen to people on the forums it's only those with problems that complain, but have you considered the hundreds of thousands that don't complain and never get the chance to say 'mine's ok'? "

[ianman]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

22 minutes ago, Reactivestills said:

Sadly it’s not what I just think as you say. It’s a fact that Leica has very slow service times hence why I would opt for a 2nd body. In the event I have to send one in for 1-6 months due to whatever reason. 

Depending on what you need done it can take a few hours too. I had my M9 and lenses adjusted at the factory. Instead of sending the lot in I just made an appointment and had a day out. Dropped my stuff off at the factory, had a walk around the town and they called me a few hours later when it was ready. ok, I'm lucky that I can do that, but even so, when the same body had a sensor change it was away for 5 weeks shipping included.

It's not fun to be without a camera (I have others so it wasn't complete withdrawal), but to buy 2 new identical bodies from the outset "just in case" seems plain crazy to me. It makes no sense. Why stop at 2?

IMHO is worth following the advice you have been given by people with a lot of experience.

[Stuart Richardson]

I think what people are trying to tell you is that forums are better at telling stories about problems than stories like, mine, where I inherited my dad's M6 from 1985 in 2015, which had never been serviced and worked very well. I sent it in for repair to get it looked at, and it came back even smoother and cleaner than my M7. It took awhile, but not super long. I live in Iceland so it makes everything take longer. Another story would be that of my grandmother, who bought a Leica IIIb in Germany in the early 1930s on a trip. She passed away in the late 90s, and the camera had been unused for decades. My relatives gave it to me in the 2010s, and I sent it to Sherry Krauter for a cleaning and lubrication (Leica does not work on screwmount anymore), as it had not been serviced in 80 years or so. When I sent it in, the finder was cloudy and the speeds off, but it worked. When it came back the finder was crystal clear and the speeds spot on. Leica film cameras are well built devices. Not immune to wear and tear, but they have a lot of life in them.

By all means buy two bodies if you want to, but it is unlikely to be necessary. Another option would be to just buy another body IF you camera needs service, as used M cameras are not hard to find.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Stuart Richardson

[ianman]

7 minutes ago, Reactivestills said:

I’m not looking for smart remarks because I am stating facts. Best stay off the thread if that attitude is going to be spewed from you

As been said repeatedly now, your "facts" are NOT representative of the large majority of Leica fiml body owners. 99% or more don't have issues but don't start threads on forums "I've got no issues at all with my M body." There are however 224 pages in the "I love my MP" thread and 46 in the "I love my M-A" thread. (but M-A users are just a bit of a weird "oooouh, I don't need a lightmeter" show offs  ). 

PS: It's also not a great idea to start getting aggressive with long standing respected members of the forum who share their experience with you.

[pgk]

To get back on topic. Firstly, the decision between film and digital bodies is one which has been debated since digital came of age. Film is likely to be with us for many years to come because there is clearly substantial worldwide demand, as is evidenced by the number of companies still marketting 35mm film - a product which has to be produced in fairly substatial quantities (you can't just make one roll of 36 exposures!). So there is unlikely to be a lack of film to use for decades by the look of it. What will finally drive it out of the marketplace will be environmetal concerns about processing (dumping silver and some of the organic chemicals into the environment will probably not be acceptable even on a consumer basis before long) and the eventual lack of new cameras (but that's decades away). Secondly, its about reality. I own an M4 which I have realised is simply not going to get used - I will use larger format film cameras but digital full-frame and in spite of thinking that I should still own a film camera I don't like having stuff sitting doing nothing so it will probably go (as its a black paint copy I suspect that I can sell it quickly enough) but it still has a draw because I spent so long making a living from shooting film.

Lastly, a back up is essential if you cannot be without a camera and this is a personal decision. I always own two cameras for any system, not necessarily identical ones, but ones that will cover for each other. As someone who makes a living from photography this is an essential requirement since clients are not interested in why I can't take photos for them should a body fail. It doesn't matter what maker the bodies come from and I always retain a pot of 'reserve capital' to fund a replacement should a body be utterly destroyed although its never happened.

[jaapv]

48 minutes ago, Reactivestills said:

Why would I be on here quoting times for repair before I part with 9.5k 

One wonders indeed...

[Reactivestills]

16 minutes ago, ianman said:

As been said repeatedly now, your "facts" are NOT representative of the large majority of Leica fiml body owners. 99% or more don't have issues but don't start threads on forums "I've got no issues at all with my M body." There are however 224 pages in the "I love my MP" thread and 46 in the "I love my M-A" thread. (but M-A users are just a bit of a weird "oooouh, I don't need a lightmeter" show offs  ). 

PS: It's also not a great idea to start getting aggressive with long standing respected members of the forum who share their experience with you.

Well when I come for advice and get smart remarks… maybe it’s not very nice to treat a possible new member with such an attitude no matter how long get you are part of a forum. 

Don’t worry I won’t be stopping by here again. 

[MarkP]

44 minutes ago, Reactivestills said:

Thanks for your input Ian.

It’s giving me more of an insight into the brand before I part with cash.

Sadly it’s not what I just think as you say. It’s a fact that Leica has very slow service times hence why I would opt for a 2nd body. In the event I have to send one in for 1-6 months due to whatever reason. 

This is not only in relation to film bodies, other with digital have said the same. If you spent 5-10k on a device and it had to be with a company for such a long time would you be happy? I doubt it. Of course this is worst case scenario but I am querying and researching on here before making a decision. 

 

I think that it's clear that the general consensus is that the M film cameras are very reliable. Most people have no problems with them. My M7 and CL have never required a repair, just a CLA at a time convenient for me.  Three week turnaround.

Buy an MP or MA, and an older M (M4, M4-P, M6,  or even a CL) as a second body or backup. You could shoot and process a lot of film for the money you'd save trying to insure yourself for the off-chance of a camera breakdown at an inconvenient time.

 

If you 're still not convinced then buy an old Nikon AI-S film system. My old FM, FE2 and especially my F3/T were indestructible.  The F3 could double as a mace if attacked in a dark alley 🙂. However, I had no hesitation dumping my Nikons once I moved over to Leica in 2010.

[Reactivestills]

6 minutes ago, pgk said:

To get back on topic. Firstly, the decision between film and digital bodies is one which has been debated since digital came of age. Film is likely to be with us for many years to come because there is clearly substantial worldwide demand, as is evidenced by the number of companies still marketting 35mm film - a product which has to be produced in fairly substatial quantities (you can't just make one roll of 36 exposures!). So there is unlikely to be a lack of film to use for decades by the look of it. What will finally drive it out of the marketplace will be environmetal concerns about processing (dumping silver and some of the organic chemicals into the environment will probably not be acceptable even on a consumer basis before long) and the eventual lack of new cameras (but that's decades away). Secondly, its about reality. I own an M4 which I have realised is simply not going to get used - I will use larger format film cameras but digital full-frame and in spite of thinking that I should still own a film camera I don't like having stuff sitting doing nothing so it will probably go (as its a black paint copy I suspect that I can sell it quickly enough) but it still has a draw because I spent so long making a living from shooting film.

Lastly, a back up is essential if you cannot be without a camera and this is a personal decision. I always own two cameras for any system, not necessarily identical ones, but ones that will cover for each other. As someone who makes a living from photography this is an essential requirement since clients are not interested in why I can't take photos for them should a body fail. It doesn't matter what maker the bodies come from and I always retain a pot of 'reserve capital' to fund a replacement should a body be utterly destroyed although its never happened.

Thanks for the reply

[ianman]

11 minutes ago, Reactivestills said:

Well when I come for advice and get smart remarks… maybe it’s not very nice to treat a possible new member with such an attitude no matter how long get you are part of a forum. 

You got a lot of advice from experienced users but seem to be ignoring it. Your choice of course but what you take as "smart remarks" - and which actually are very smart but not in the way you mean - are just reductio ad absurdum.

[a.noctilux]

@Reactivestills

Please see here as free discussions.

Take the free advices that you need/want, then go ahead.

Nothing I can add further.

Maybe when you have your film M(s), you would need more infos, so go on ...

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, Reactivestills said:

Well when I come for advice and get smart remarks… maybe it’s not very nice to treat a possible new member with such an attitude no matter how long get you are part of a forum. 

Don’t worry I won’t be stopping by here again. 

Please don't leave but listen to the advice, it helps. 

A while back I had, what I thought was a fault with my M-A. I sought advice on this forum and got a lot of different, helpful answers. Several thought the fault was possibly in the viewfinder but, eventually, I found that the fault was actually slightly behind the viewfinder. It was in the idiot looking through the viewfinder, in other words, me. I have only been taking photos since about 1952 so a relative novice but the help I received was invaluable, you are never too old to learn. Take that to heart.

[Reactivestills]

Please close this thread. Thanks to those who kindly replied with respect to a possible new owner of a few Leica Cameras -  I'm getting warning points now from moderators  - I'll close the door on my way out.  

[MarkP]

1 hour ago, Reactivestills said:

Please close this thread. Thanks to those who kindly replied with respect to a possible new owner of a few Leica Cameras -  I'm getting warning points now from moderators  - I'll close the door on my way out.  

The moderator warnings were because you came across at times as somewhat confrontational although perhaps you did not intend that tone.  
 

We are all fully aware of quality and service problems that have affected some users (me included) we’ve all read and contributed to it over the years.

We persist because of the rewards and pleasure of using Leica equipment.  We are all fully aware of Leica’s foibles and limitations, and some of the significant problems that have plagued some equipment.

All of us here have taken the time to give you worthwhile advice from our experience.

Please drop the petulance and join the community here. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience in this Forum.

 

Regards

Mark

 

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ko.Fe.]

On 8/7/2021 at 4:56 AM, Reactivestills said:

Hi All,

I will be looking to purchase two of the same body in the coming months. Either M-A/P
 

In your honest opinion is it worth buying a film Leica in 2021/22 - Will Leica cease to care about analogue cameras 

Or am I better holding on for digital and paying double the cost. 
I enjoy both formats but if film processing and sales dwindle in the next 10 years will it be a complete waste of money.

 

Please advise. Thanks 

Most likely film M bodies will be retrofittable with digital kits on regular basis at some point. They are even now, but it is DIY.

 

For now and another decade film is OK.

It just getting more and more overpriced due to shrinking market. If you are looking at getting one decent print once a month or few decent scans few times per year, then film is your thing. It is not productive, nor convenient. You have to pay a lot for darkroom paper and more and more for film. 

Buy digital and ten years from now it might become obsolete without parts for service. But you will get lot more keepers during these ten years.