Lenses that Leica will 6 Bit code

[grahamc]

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Hi Everyone 

I've just asked the main Leica accredited service centre here in Australia if they can 6-Bit Code the lenses I have that I 'think' can be coded, being :

35mm Summicron V4

50mm Summicron V3

50mm Summilux pre-ASPH (yet to purchase but asked them anyway as will purchase soon).

They replied that none are on "the list" they currently have from Leica, hence can't help.

Was quite surprised so just wanted to ask from people that know more about such 'lists' than I do - Is there a chance at all that this info I was given is incorrect (wishful thinking probably!) or .... is there another route to get these done 'officially'?

Presuming the offical route might not be possible, I'd also be open to sending to someone reputable who can code them, so recommendations would be appreciated.  I'm based in Australia but very happy to send Overseas to the right person.  

I'm less open to the DIY option but am aware of the process.  Finally for completeness of info I'm an MD-262 user so I can't manually code them in-camera. 

Cheers everyone in advance
G 

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[a.noctilux]

Hello Graham,

I'm sorry to relate that coding lenses now is not as easy as years ago, when Leica offered this routinely.

 

Solutions exist though.

Buy M mounts with the right position screws with coding holes, and self-coding them.

You have some different lenses (many 'folders' for coding them).

- the 35mm Summicron pre-asph. IV series have a special lens mount (not standard) which one fixing screw would be at the 6bit coding position

so if I remember well, Leica never offer coding for this lens series

- those two 50mm may be "coded" or choosing manually in menu :

  a - I put just a black point with sharpie on one of my 50mm Summilux pre-asph. for fun, to try out ( '100000' as asph.) but not funny at all as the camera detects or not the lens as coded

with this in-house 'coding'

  b - from that I just use my lenses as they are coded or not happily for years

 

side note, if you want to try yourself, have a look in this site for 6bit codes forsome lenses

 

 

[pedaes]

3 hours ago, grahamc said:

They replied that none are on "the list" they currently have from Leica, hence can't help

You haven't said what camera, but 'the list' is presumably lenses you can manually select from the list in the 'Menu".  

There is no correction applied to 50mm lenses, so the only advantage is showing the lens in the EXIF data . 

[grahamc]

52 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Graham,

I'm sorry to relate that coding lenses now is not as easy as years ago, when Leica offered this routinely.

 

Solutions exist though.

Buy M mounts with the right position screws with coding holes, and self-coding them.

You have some different lenses (many 'folders' for coding them).

- the 35mm Summicron pre-asph. IV series have a special lens mount (not standard) which one fixing screw would be at the 6bit coding position

so if I remember well, Leica never offer coding for this lens series

- those two 50mm may be "coded" or choosing manually in menu :

  a - I put just a black point with sharpie on one of my 50mm Summilux pre-asph. for fun, to try out ( '100000' as asph.) but not funny at all as the camera detects or not the lens as coded

with this in-house 'coding'

  b - from that I just use my lenses as they are coded or not happily for years

 

side note, if you want to try yourself, have a look in this site for 6bit codes forsome lenses

 

 

Hi and Thanks Arnaud ,

I think if it's between code-myself options and leaving it / enjoying the lenses as-is, I might just stick with them as they are . If my memory is reasonably good after shooting I can enter into the key words in Lightroom which will at least enable me to pull up the shots later as having been taken with a particular lens (that's all I want to achieve really). 

Cheers

Graham 

[grahamc]

37 minutes ago, pedaes said:

You haven't said what camera, but 'the list' is presumably lenses you can manually select from the list in the 'Menu".  

There is no correction applied to 50mm lenses, so the only advantage is showing the lens in the EXIF data . 

Thanks Pedaes,

Interesting, I got the impression that had looked on a list of 'supported' lenses that they might 6-Bit Code.   I'm using MD-262 so selecting in the menu isn't possible (due to no menu on the camera).  Really the only reason I'm considering it is to get the EXIF data into light room to sort the shots by lens later, if needed. 

Ultimately I can live without it and that might be the way I need to go

[pedaes]

7 minutes ago, grahamc said:

I'm using MD-262

OK - useful to know your difficuly!  Might be worth asking a more generic question in the Forum for your camera as someone might know a workaround. 

There are videos on YouTube about 6-bit coding and there used to be a guide (template) you could buy - "Mitch" from memory . There is a service guy in Europe who machines the lens's original mount and codes it (did a brilliant job on a 50mm Elmar for me) but not very helpful for you I am afraid. This is he if you want to check it out https://www.kamera-service.info/index.php/en/

[lct]

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OK for 50/2 v3 given its thick lens flange but not for 35/2 v4 or 50/1.4 v3. Both can be coded according to this Leica list: https://en.leica-camera.com/content/download/105337/958324/version/3/file/6BIT_CODING_LIST_April2015_EN.pdf

[TomB_tx]

Yes, Leica only coded older lenses by replacing the old flange with a new one that has the coding pits already machined. They had no replacement flanges for several older lenses, including my set (50 f2 ver 3, 35 f2 ver 2, & 90 f2.8 fat TE). They didn’t bother making a batch of these flanges that differed from the more normal (& popular) designs. I also never found 3rd party coded flanges for these lenses either, so I used the template and black marker method, which works quite well.

I imagine Leica made batches of coded flanges for the more common lenses anticipating that many would want them coded. They may have used up those stocks now, and since the demand for coding is low now, it wouldn’t be economical to machine new flanges to order - so they may not offer coding for all the lens models they used to do.

[BradS]

interesting. I guess I was under the impression that the 50mm Summilux was one that Leica would retrofit with the 6-bit coded flange. Perhaps it as @TomB_txspeculates above. Reminds me of the late 1970's when Nikon came out with the AI system and would retrofit most older Nikon lenses for a very nominal cost.  Those days are gone, as they say. <sigh>

[Theory033]

6 hours ago, grahamc said:

50mm Summilux pre-ASPH (yet to purchase but asked them anyway as will purchase soon).

I had my Leica 50mm Summilux Pre-ASPH Type 3 E46 lens coded by Leica just this year. I'm in the US and sent it to Leica USA, who then forwarded it to Germany for the work. I'm very pleased with the results and they did fine-tune the focus, optimizing it for the digital sensor. At one time I toyed with the idea of sending it to a 3rd party to do the 6-bit coding, but I'm glad that I had it done by Leica. 

You could try to contact Leica Service in Germany and send the lens there directly. 

[lct]

•

Edited June 29, 2021 by lct

[TomB_tx]

Leica has probably standardized the flange during the early 70s emphasis on cost reduction, as the earlier M lenses varied flange thickness and hole placements. I notice the list includes the 11817 50 Summicron (v3 - 1969-79) which I was told they didn't code, as it has a thicker flange than most with different mounting hole locations, including one in the midst of the coding pit area. This would certainly be a different flange than most. The 35 f2 v2 (69-79) is not on the list, and it has no mounting screws on the back of the flange, and the flange is threaded to act as the focus helicoid for the RF cam.

Of course, flanges still vary with the machining that triggers the frame line selection in the VF.

[adan]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:56 AM, TomB_tx said:

I notice the list includes the 11817 50 Summicron (v3 - 1969-79) which I was told they didn't code, as it has a thicker flange than most with different mounting hole locations, including one in the midst of the coding pit area.

The existence of a screw "in the midst of the coding pit area" is irrelevant - Leica simply leaves out the screw that goes there, when adding a coded flange. 5 are sufficient.

...................................

The fairly simple formula is:

- Leica did not want to bother with reviving "antique" thick flanges just for 6-bit coding - or machining pits in existing thick flanges. Leica was giving away two free lens codings in 2006 to any M8 purchaser - they needed fast and cheap conversions.

- lenses introduced in 1980 or later are very likely to be 6-bit-codable by Leica, provided they have the 1mm-"thin" mounting flange still used today. Three M lenses made after 1980 do not:

• 35 Summilux pre-ASPH (never made with thin flange);
• 50mm Summilux (E43, no built-in hood) before 1992 (same); The "version III" E46 with built-in hood post-1992 is codable - I have owned a couple with Leica factory coding.
• 135 Tele-Elmar (not supported regardless of flange, which were only thin in the final E46 version. Leica decided 135mm was a "bridge too far" in achieving the focus precision needed for digital. The M8 did not even include 135mm framelines. Leica eventually changed their mind(s) for the 135mm APO-Telyt-M - once the M9 came out.)

- lenses introduced before 1980 with today's thin mounts already in place (e.g. the 90mm Tele-Elmarit "thin") were included.

Regarding the 1969-1979 (11817) version of the 50 Summicron ever being 6-bit-codable, I have to assume that was simply a typo on Leica's part. Unless there is some historical anomaly such as some late batches of the 11817 being made in Canada with a thin flange, 1977-1979. I'm not a 50mm user and not that clued in on the 50mm versions. But I recall being - bemused - even in 2006, by the fact that a 1969 50 was included on the "codeable" list. Didn't seem correct even then.

[lct]

4 hours ago, adan said:

Regarding the 1969-1979 (11817) version of the 50 Summicron ever being 6-bit-codable, I have to assume that was simply a typo on Leica's part.

+1

[Frase]

Buy the mounts and swap them over if they are no good it doesn't really matter as the mounts are so cheap, when I had a few M lenses before just sticking with the 35mm focal length swapped all of them 28 Summicron, 35 Summicron V4, 50 Summicron,  50 Summilux and 90 Summicron.  When changing them just don't go about it like a caveman !

Good luck

[a.noctilux]

14 hours ago, Frase said:

Buy the mounts and swap them over if they are no good it doesn't really matter as the mounts are so cheap, when I had a few M lenses before just sticking with the 35mm focal length swapped all of them 28 Summicron, 35 Summicron V4, 50 Summicron,  50 Summilux and 90 Summicron.  When changing them just don't go about it like a caveman !

Good luck

Of course, one of many 'solutions'.

 

The OP question is "...Lenses that Leica will 6Bit code",

not all, and some workarounds can be taken as alternatives.

 

I had answered in my post #2, as user of M-D (typ 262)

see proposition "b" 😉 easy 'solution'.

Oh see Graham's answer post #5 !

Edited July 2, 2021 by a.noctilux

[grahamc]

On 7/1/2021 at 6:05 PM, adan said:

The existence of a screw "in the midst of the coding pit area" is irrelevant - Leica simply leaves out the screw that goes there, when adding a coded flange. 5 are sufficient.

...................................

The fairly simple formula is:

- Leica did not want to bother with reviving "antique" thick flanges just for 6-bit coding - or machining pits in existing thick flanges. Leica was giving away two free lens codings in 2006 to any M8 purchaser - they needed fast and cheap conversions.

- lenses introduced in 1980 or later are very likely to be 6-bit-codable by Leica, provided they have the 1mm-"thin" mounting flange still used today. Three M lenses made after 1980 do not:

• 35 Summilux pre-ASPH (never made with thin flange);
• 50mm Summilux (E43, no built-in hood) before 1992 (same); The "version III" E46 with built-in hood post-1992 is codable - I have owned a couple with Leica factory coding.
• 135 Tele-Elmar (not supported regardless of flange, which were only thin in the final E46 version. Leica decided 135mm was a "bridge too far" in achieving the focus precision needed for digital. The M8 did not even include 135mm framelines. Leica eventually changed their mind(s) for the 135mm APO-Telyt-M - once the M9 came out.)

- lenses introduced before 1980 with today's thin mounts already in place (e.g. the 90mm Tele-Elmarit "thin") were included.

Regarding the 1969-1979 (11817) version of the 50 Summicron ever being 6-bit-codable, I have to assume that was simply a typo on Leica's part. Unless there is some historical anomaly such as some late batches of the 11817 being made in Canada with a thin flange, 1977-1979. I'm not a 50mm user and not that clued in on the 50mm versions. But I recall being - bemused - even in 2006, by the fact that a 1969 50 was included on the "codeable" list. Didn't seem correct even then.

Thanks this is extremely informative ! 

[grahamc]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:59 PM, lct said:

OK for 50/2 v3 given its thick lens flange but not for 35/2 v4 or 50/1.4 v3. Both can be coded according to this Leica list: https://en.leica-camera.com/content/download/105337/958324/version/3/file/6BIT_CODING_LIST_April2015_EN.pdf

Ah 'the list' that they referred to .. thanks for this 

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Hallo,

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[grahamc]

So if the 'list' linked in this thread (thanks @lct) is still being serviced by Leica then I have a solution - my set can potentially be as follows:

50mm FL:
Summilux v3 - Coded
Summicron v3 - uncoded / uncodable

35mm FL:

Summilux v2 - uncoded / uncodable

Summicron v4 - Coded. 

Cataloguing Digital photos then 'should' be easy as long as I remember what FL was used. i.e If Lightroom is not showing me a lens type I'll know it's the uncoded one and enter the lens type in the key words. 

That works for me and keep my wallet happy as this method will prevent me buying any more lenses for a while since the whole theory would be ruined if I throw another uncodable lens at same FL in the mix. 

 

 

 

[adan]

1) always remember that the digital Ms allow you to "tag" a lens from a menu-list of lenses - they don't have to be coded to be cataloged. So long as you go into the lens list and change the setting with every lens change.

The M10 (at least) will allow you to select the pre-ASPH 35 Summilux from the menu, even though that is not a codable lens: "35 f/1.4 11869/11870/11860." Same for the 50mm Summiluxes 11868/11856/11114

2) If you are using an M10 variant, you effectively get ONE "freebie" lens ID to intermix with your coded lenses.

The M10 firmware will swap automatically between coded lenses - and any one uncoded lens that remains "permanently" assigned in the lens menu (until you change the lens menu setting yourself).

E.G. I have coded lenses 21/28/35/75/90 - and an "uncodable" 135 TE.

I leave the camera's lens menu set to Manual M - "135mm Tele-Elmar f/4.0"

If I mount any of my coded lenses, the M10 automatically detects the coding, and uses that, ignoring the menu setting.

If I switch to my 135 (or any uncoded lens), the M10 automatically detects an uncoded lens. And automatically uses the current menu selection. So using the 135 is as "seamless" as if it were coded (just swap and shoot - no menu-diving at all).

3) For the most part, the critical effects of the coding or menu selection (correction of Italian-flag color stains with wide-angles) are reasonably swappable between similar optical designs.

I.E. the menu setting for the 35 Summicron v.4 works just fine with a 35mm Summicron v.3 or v.2 (and probably fine for the v.1 8-element as well, although I haven't tried it). They are all 6/7/8-element double-gauss lenses.

And the Leica 35mm Summilux pre-ASPH menu (or hand-coding, with Sharpie pen) works equally well for the Voigtländer 35mm Nokton "Classic" f/1.4 - which is nearly a dead-ringer (optically) for the original Leica lens.

The 135 TE setting will work fine for a Hektor 135 or an Elmar 135. Or an old Nikon or Canon LTM one, for that matter.