Trading two lenses for one? 35/2.8ZM + 50/2 for 35 Cron Asph v1

[lct]

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10 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

To stir the pot further, the cron does have magenta edges issue on certain lighting on M240

Never seen that either. I seem to recall that Sean Reid found a bit of cyan shift on M240, rather well corrected by 6-bit coding, but magenta edges i don't remember. May i ask if you have any experience with this lens? Just curious.

[Dennis]

Can it be possible that the 6-bit coded lenses are better "corrected" lenses? 

[Casey Jefferson]

24 minutes ago, lct said:

Never seen that either. I seem to recall that Sean Reid found a bit of cyan shift on M240, rather well corrected by 6-bit coding, but magenta edges i don't remember. May i ask if you have any experience with this lens? Just curious.

On M240 it doesn't appear most of the time, but it's rather offensive when one shoot blue sky, particularly strong sunny sky (much like Steven's 28 elmarit discussion). Never cyan shift, though. Mine is 6 bit corrected.

 

7 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Can it be possible that the 6-bit coded lenses are better "corrected" lenses? 

Possible, but I haven't seen direct comparison. Pretty easy to test if you have M10, the display should be easy to judge I think. By 2.8 the sharpness and micro contrast are much stronger than wide open.

[lct]

1 minute ago, Casey Jefferson said:

On M240 it doesn't appear most of the time, but it's rather offensive when one shoot blue sky, particularly strong sunny sky (much like Steven's 28 elmarit discussion). Never cyan shift, though. Mine is 6 bit corrected.

There is no more magenta shift issue than on the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph we were discussing about then sorry. Too bad i'm not a Sean Reid subscriber but better use lenses in person to be sure anyway. 

[Dennis]

3 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Pretty easy to test if you have M10, the display should be easy to judge I think. By 2.8 the sharpness and micro contrast are much stronger than wide open.

I would use the lens at f/2-4-8, these are my fave f/stops.. I will definitely test it if I get chance.

.

Casey, Ict.

Any particular (smart/mandatory) test/trick do you recommend to find out which are the lens lacks? I could probably have one hour or two.

[Casey Jefferson]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

There is no more magenta shift issue than on the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph we were discussing about then sorry. Too bad i'm not a Sean Reid subscriber but better use lenses in person to be sure anyway. 

I suspect there's copy variations. The cron now perfectly fixed on my M9 with new sensor. The 28 cron however has some cyan/green shift... Bummer...But both performed much better than old sensor as well as on M240, so I'm not complaining.

14 minutes ago, Dennis said:

I would use the lens at f/2-4-8, these are my fave f/stops.. I will definitely test it if I get chance.

.

Casey, Ict.

Any particular (smart/mandatory) test/trick do you recommend to find out which are the lens lacks? I could probably have one hour or two.

Maybe grab and rotate the filter thread section see if that section is particularly loose. Mine has just a very tiny play where I can only feel but not visible. 

[lct]

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22 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Can it be possible that the 6-bit coded lenses are better "corrected" lenses? 

Lenses designed for film have been calibrated for digital after the launch of the M8 in 2006 generally but i have no info about the 35/2 asph v1 specially. A good way to check it is to own a lens suffering from back or front focusing problems and send it to Leica for 6-bit coding. I did not do it for my 35/2 asph v1 that i bought new with 6-bit coding but it was obvious on two 90's of mine a 90/2 v3 and a 90/2.8 v2 that i bought in the film days. As far as the 35/2 asph v1 is concerned i have never noticed significant focus shift issues out of it and i have shown it here but other colleagues were less lucky, probably because their lens was made before 2006 but i'm not sure of that. Given that you are a pro photographer i would try the lens before purchasing it if i were in your shoes but it's up to you.

[lct]

22 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Any particular (smart/mandatory) test/trick do you recommend to find out which are the lens lacks? I could probably have one hour or two.

I would check possible focus shift issues. You know how to do it i guess, otherwise it is no rocket science, i'll explain you if you wish. 

[Dennis]

19 minutes ago, lct said:

I would check possible focus shift issues. You know how to do it i guess, otherwise it is no rocket science, i'll explain you if you wish. 

Yes I know, I guess. Thank you! I still have a focus chart (or a flexometer would work), LV for precise focus, and don't try wide open or at f/8... More around f/2.8-4. At short and medium distances. I did something like this once when I calibrated my TT 35/1.4 for front focus. I guess it's similar. Did I pass the test?🏆

I always prefer to shoot more, rather then tests and pixel peeps. But if there is focus shift, probably is not correctable, right?

[lct]

33 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Did I pass the test?

You did pass the test for back or front focusing but for focus shift issues you will need a tripod and if possible an electronic Visoflex. Now mount your M10 on the tripod, open your lens at f/2, aim at a subject matter, a contrasty one preferably, nail focus on it with the Visoflex preferably and shoot. Now, without touching the focus ring in any way, open at f/2.8 and shoot. Then do the same at f/4 and f/5.6 it should be enough. Suffice it to review your pics then and you wil see immediately if what was sharp at f/2 became significantly softer at other apertures. BTW being a lens test, you can do it on a mirrorless camera as well.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by lct

[lct]

17 minutes ago, Dennis said:

But if there is focus shift, probably is not correctable, right?

Only by Leica i fear.

[Dennis]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

You did pas the test for back of front focusing but for focus shift issues

50% right. The focus shift test, I had no idea. Thank you.

We learn everyday here 🙂

[lct]

Old farts have to be useful for something

[Dennis]

I actually found this post about differences between v1 and v2. Interesting. 

 

 

[Casey Jefferson]

@Dennis it's one of my reference thread when I found mine offered on sale. I'm a sucker for contrast and the V1 has just the right amount wide open. 

Also see this:

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/7/9/leica-35mm-summicron-asph-i-vs-ii-24mp-vs-42mp-resolution-test

I noticed the V2 has less contrast and also highlight bleed that no one seems to be bothered. It does indeed has more resolutions.

[Dennis]

8 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:Also see this:

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/7/9/leica-35mm-summicron-asph-i-vs-ii-24mp-vs-42mp-resolution-test

Interesting comparison link. I saw the photos. When pixel peeping, I can see differences in 400% crops. But not a huge different.

But I prefer much more the overall look of the Asph I, no doubt. It's more natural, and better colors. Don't you think? 

[Casey Jefferson]

36 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Interesting comparison link. I saw the photos. When pixel peeping, I can see differences in 400% crops. But not a huge different.

But I prefer much more the overall look of the Asph I, no doubt. It's more natural, and better colors. Don't you think? 

That's why I end up with the V1 that was offered with nice price. It has no box and one of the clip on the hood broken (which I don't use), only a few tiny speak of paint lost. Happy with the purchase.

[Dennis]

47 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

That's why I end up with the V1

Happy with the purchase.

FWIS looks like a great lens: with the right amount of contrast and fine rendering. It's not outstanding, but very good and balanced with M cameras, the almost perfect size and weight. Sharp enough wide open, with little (but lovely) soft corners. Then much better at f/4. Maybe a tiny focus shift at 2.8-4, depends on the copy. The 6-bit code is beneficial for vignette correction and slight distortion. 
The Asph v2 is more significant. Heavier. A little more modern rendering, better suit for high res. sensor. The different lens hood is a matter of taste. Besides this, I do not see significant differences between v1 and v2.

It's like somewhere between my 35 Nokton Classic and the 35 Biogon. Does it make sense?

Do you see any similarities in IQ and rendering of the Asph v1 with the 50 Summicron (current)?

Edited August 18, 2021 by Dennis
added something

[Casey Jefferson]

@Dennis You have a good balance of expectation for the lens as long as you know it's weakness. I wouldn't call the softer corners lovely (soft corner is soft corners lol), but certainly not a bad performer, and it does indeed performed much better than all previous generations.

For many people who love high performance lens and old character lens, the cron asph is neither here or there, that's why some people call it a boring lens. I came from modern mirrorless world so this lens has a lot of character in comparison. The shot below is why I love it so much. It's really not a technically perfect lens like modern mirrorless lenses. But I love that it captured a lot of tone and color nuances.

 

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[Dennis]

4 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

I wouldn't call the softer corners lovely (soft corner is soft corners lol),

😆

Well, I was saying that it doesn't bother me 🙂 Veiling flare does a little.

5 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

certainly not a bad performer, and it does indeed performed much better than all previous generations.

Not sure, define better. Because In these two last day that I searched for all Summicron 35 versions, to know more about them. And many people like better the v1 (8 elements), v3 and V4 rather than both Asph. For different reasons. But I know that I liked what I saw about the Asph v1, and it's the one I have available to buy second-hand.

9 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

For many people who love high performance lens and old character lens, the cron asph is neither here or there, that's why some people call it a boring lens. I came from modern mirrorless world so this lens has a lot of character in comparison. The shot below is why I love it so much. It's really not a technically perfect lens like modern mirrorless lenses. But I love that it captured a lot of tone and color nuances.

Interesting POV of the lens.

If I want a super sharp but not fast 35, I have my Biogon 2.8/35 ZM. Outstanding. If I want a fun and fast lens, my Nokton 35/1.4 II MC. These are two opposite lenses, with complete different IQ. Somehow, I believe the Asph renders more organic, more flat than modern lenses. But sharp and nice contrast, and as you say, with true beautiful colors.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.