NZDavid Posted May 15, 2021 Share #1 Posted May 15, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's still a superb lens. I don't mind the bokeh, mostly. Even just blurring the background slightly makes difference in separating the subject so dunno if I really need a faster lens. I have done quite a few low light portraits recently, so I wouldn't want any slower. Yes, it may not be as contrasty as more modern lenses but I can easily boost contrast in PP. Would a late version Summicron be worthwhile? Or is there another choice? The 35 Summicron-ASPH is my most-used lens but 50 is great for closer portraits and even landscapes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 15, 2021 Posted May 15, 2021 Hi NZDavid, Take a look here Change 50 Summicron Rigid -- or not?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AndreasG Posted May 15, 2021 Share #2 Posted May 15, 2021 The Summicron 50, Made in Canada, was my first Leica lens which I bought new in 1986, I still use it, it is for me the perfect allrounder of a high optical performance. I also own the APO Summicron 50, which is a little better with a higher resolution and contrast especially in the corners. I do not need a faster 50mm lens, because, as David wrote above, a lot can be achieved by PP. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted May 15, 2021 Share #3 Posted May 15, 2021 i am a fan of the pre-aspherical 50 Summilux - as well as the 75 Summicron for portaits. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted May 15, 2021 Share #4 Posted May 15, 2021 I'm with Ravi above, one of my favorite 50mm for M is pre-asph. Summilux. Even in this type, some differences (subbtle! ) remain in overall rendering, still use three of different period from 1960's to 2000's. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311594-best-leica-50mm-lens-for-portraits/?do=findComment&comment=4014019 If you want to stay with Summicron, the socalled "III" ( or (II) ... in Wiki ) can be a happy challenger for Rigid with MFD of 70cm to begin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 15, 2021 Share #5 Posted May 15, 2021 8 hours ago, NZDavid said: Would a late version Summicron be worthwhile? Or is there another choice? The 35 Summicron-ASPH is my most-used lens but 50 is great for closer portraits and even landscapes. A modern Summicron 50/2 non apo (v4 or v5) will bring more contrast, more color saturation and less flare but also more CA and more focus shift. To match your 35/2 asph i would pick preferably current lenses like Summicron 50/2 apo, Summicron 50/2 v5 or Planar 50/2. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Michel Posted May 15, 2021 Share #6 Posted May 15, 2021 I purchased my “rigid”, new, back in 1968 together with an M4 while still a student. Still have it today, but I did buy a current version a couple of years ago, partially in order to have 6 bit coding — the rigid cannot be coded and must be manually selected, such a formidable first world problem!. LCT is correct, the newer lens brings more contrast and resist flare quite a bit better, I however do not experience any focus shift issues or CA. In the end, the new lens shows up better I pixel peeping mode, but in print mode the differences are largely moot. Similarly, I retired my 35 “goggled” Summicron (made in 1962) for a current version. The differences are somewhat greater between the two, especially in contrast wide open. The early version has much lower contrast wide open making for some very fine rendering, then the differences become less and less. Still, since I wear glasses I miss the easier framing with the goggles, but focusing is easier with the new one, especially since digital is less forgiving. So, David, I really have no recommendation other than to say that you can continue making you want with your “rigid”; just make sure to print them! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted May 16, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sounds like there is some uncertainty about focus shift with the newer Summicrons but they all need care. Older Summilux or newer ASPH version is also tempting. APO would be wonderful but $$$! Thanks for all the input. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 16, 2021 Share #8 Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, NZDavid said: Sounds like there is some uncertainty about focus shift with the newer Summicrons but they all need care. Older Summilux or newer ASPH version is also tempting. APO would be wonderful but $$$! Thanks for all the input. Both my 50/2 v4 & v5 copies have indeed a bit of focus shift around f/4 but it is negligible on 3D subjects. FWIW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted May 16, 2021 Share #9 Posted May 16, 2021 Which camera, media? Is it digital M or else? Is it digital or film? Which film? BW or color. I had Rigid on digital M and on film M with bw and color. I had last regular formula Cron on the same. Both never amused me on BW film. In opposite. They were sterile. Next to unpleasing. On color films both were awesome. Later Cron was very vibrant on colors. Rigid was more muted, but sharp rendering was kind of unique. Not just sharp. On digital Rigid showed old style colors, but they were not bad at all. It was also significantly sharper and much less focus shifts. The later Cron just as on film was giving very vibrant colors. My copy was optimized for f2 and closer distances. Rigid was just sharp at any aperture and distance. Since 50 is not my focal length and I have two, no three different 35 mm lenses (from earlier fifties to couple of years old model and one Leica ASPH 35 lens ), I sold all of Leitz made fifties after I got very clean 50 1.8 Canon and Jupiter-3. I don't mind usable f1.5 @50 at all for next to nothing price . 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted May 16, 2021 Share #10 Posted May 16, 2021 13 hours ago, lct said: A modern Summicron 50/2 non apo (v4 or v5) will bring more contrast, more color saturation and less flare but also more CA and more focus shift. To match your 35/2 asph i would pick preferably current lenses like Summicron 50/2 apo, Summicron 50/2 v5 or Planar 50/2. v4 is known for veiling flare. Rigid doesn't have this failure. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 16, 2021 Share #11 Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, Ko.Fe. said: v4 is known for veiling flare. You mean v3 perhaps? My v3 had indeed some veiling flare but i sold it 20+ years ago. Which i regretted but it is another story. Now i hardly see significant differences re flare between v4 and v5 but the latter has a bit less flare apparently. I say apparently because this is true with my early Canadian v4 but i did not do side by side comparos with my late German v4. But v4 or v5 suffering from veiling flare i would say no as far as my copies are concerned at least, especially compared to v3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted May 16, 2021 Share #12 Posted May 16, 2021 V4 or 5 will have a larger area of sharp focus compared to rigid , and more contrast. Still not up to below two. Save your money for APO 50 or latest 50 1.4. F 2.0 will be better with either. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share #13 Posted May 16, 2021 I used the Rigid with film, mostly slide, and then the M9 and now M10. It's a great lens, I'm just interested in finding out more about later versions and alternatives. I also used to have a 2.8/35 Summaron with goggles for the M3 that yielded very fine results; I use the 35 Summicron-ASPH as my standard lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted May 16, 2021 Share #14 Posted May 16, 2021 10 hours ago, lct said: You mean v3 perhaps? My v3 had indeed some veiling flare but i sold it 20+ years ago. Which i regretted but it is another story. Now i hardly see significant differences re flare between v4 and v5 but the latter has a bit less flare apparently. I say apparently because this is true with my early Canadian v4 but i did not do side by side comparos with my late German v4. But v4 or v5 suffering from veiling flare i would say no as far as my copies are concerned at least, especially compared to v3. v3 I had was not doing it. v4 did. And it is known issue. I would never come with "veiling glare" term by myself . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 16, 2021 Share #15 Posted May 16, 2021 27 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said: v3 I had was not doing it. v4 did. And it is known issue. I would never come with "veiling glare" term by myself . Perhaps we're not talking about the same lens. Do you mean this one (11819)? If so i have not noticed significant veiling flare since the eighties with my copies. FWIW. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/320923-change-50-summicron-rigid-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=4201965'>More sharing options...
Alberti Posted May 16, 2021 Share #16 Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) Similar experience as I have Quote this one (11819)? If so i have not noticed significant veiling flare since the eighties with my copies The later Cron I have can exhibit some Leica ghosting, white edges, bloom on high contrast. Never saw that with the older one version III. My copy of the older one had some trouble to go to infinity at larger apertures. Edited May 16, 2021 by Alberti Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 16, 2021 Share #17 Posted May 16, 2021 About flare out of the 50/2 v3 (11817), this article shows pretty well what i was trying to explain. http://ohm-image.net/opinion/photophile/nagano-japan-summicron-50 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted May 17, 2021 I'm still tempted by the later V5 Summicron non-APO. But a Summilux might also be worthwhile as a multi-purpose 50. Lots of good advice on the forum, thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted May 17, 2021 Share #19 Posted May 17, 2021 I have and use some 50mm lenses, glad to have them as each one different from the other (as I always write ! ). My suggestion, if possible NOT selling a (Leica or not) lens for another one. To try out in 50mm as most universal lens (if possible ! 😞 - Summarit-M 50mm is so compact and gives so good results that It's my favorite by now - Summilux pre-asph. not so big for such a quality lens, I have nothing to complain maybe only a bit heavy in titanium coated one but lighter "same" black E46 is as wonderful and focus to 70cm ... some Leitz/Leica 50mm weights ( of my lenses without hood or caps) - Summicron Rigid ...251g , Summarit-M 2.5/50 ...180g , Summicron "III" ...200g , "IV" ...196g - Summilux chrome ... 297g , E46 black ... 275g, Ti coated E46 ...368g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted May 21, 2021 Share #20 Posted May 21, 2021 On 5/16/2021 at 11:05 AM, lct said: Perhaps we're not talking about the same lens. Do you mean this one (11819)? If so i have not noticed significant veiling flare since the eighties with my copies. FWIW. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This one is the best on-line source to get crons in order. IMO. https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/50mm-summicron-comparison-table.htm Typ 3 (most mocked and mopped Cron on the web) was awesome, film and digital lens. Except odd focus block. No glare, no flare. Typ 4 is where I had it famous veiling glare. Mine was wrongly called as tiger claw. While in origin it is beaver tail. : ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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