Curious Leica I copy

[nf3996]

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I'm used to seeing FSU Feds sold as 'Leica II' cameras, but I recently came across this one which has been made into a 'Leica I' - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164856429892?hash=item2662357d44:g:~4sAAOSwZltb30pp. It's described as a copy, so I doubt if there is any intention to deceive, but what is the 'Geodesy 1936' marking all about?

Alan

[willeica]

28 minutes ago, nf3996 said:

I'm used to seeing FSU Feds sold as 'Leica II' cameras, but I recently came across this one which has been made into a 'Leica I' - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164856429892?hash=item2662357d44:g:~4sAAOSwZltb30pp. It's described as a copy, so I doubt if there is any intention to deceive, but what is the 'Geodesy 1936' marking all about?

Alan

 

 

This camera must be regarded as a fake as it claims to be a Leica, whereas it clearly is not one. The seller here has declared it to be Russian, so that is fine with his transaction, but the camera was clearly made to represent something which it is not. Geodesy is an Earth measurement science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesy . I somehow doubt if this was use in Russia for Earth measurement in 1936. If it had been, it would have had Russian/Soviet markings in the Russian. I suspect that this is of much more recent origin.

William 

[levegh]

There are five of them for sale on eBay all from the same seller in Ukraine. Because the date 1936 occurs so often on fake Leicas 'commemorating' the Berlin Olympics. I think the vendor must have looked for something else that happened in 1936 and found a conference in Edinburgh. May I commend to the vendor the idea of a 1936 Abdication of Edward VIII special edition. Or perhaps a 1936 Commencement of the USSR Great Purge edition. So many possibilities which Leitz foolishly missed at the time.

[Anbaric]

Looks like a Zorki from the 50s by the pattern of the covering. Maybe it started at one of the models with a taller viewfinder that can't be made to look like a Leica II. I think that spirit level they've stuck on the top is meant to tie in with the fantasy geodesy theme, suggesting you might use it to take survey photos to measure things. Apart from everything else, that sans-serif font looks very out of place - they could have tried a bit harder there.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Anbaric

[luigi bertolotti]

A Job of fantasy... 😄 I confess to have never seen a spirit level mounted on a Leica fake... but it adds a bit of Geodesy, someway... 😄

The Elmar looks nicely golded and the writings are finer than the usual russian fake Elmars...apart some confusion in the distance scale.

Edited May 10, 2021 by luigi bertolotti

[pgk]

I would have thought that a 'better' and more simplistic version with the features (or lack of) of the Leica 1 and sold as such - a modified Russian camera allowing users a Leica 1 'experience', would actually have the potential to sell ok for what it actually would be. No need to 'fake' anything. Perhaps this isn't in the modifier's mindest though. Pity.

[willeica]

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1 hour ago, pgk said:

I would have thought that a 'better' and more simplistic version with the features (or lack of) of the Leica 1 and sold as such - a modified Russian camera allowing users a Leica 1 'experience', would actually have the potential to sell ok for what it actually would be. No need to 'fake' anything. Perhaps this isn't in the modifier's mindest though. Pity.

I don't believe that one was made, but you can enjoy looking through this to find one. The first FED was a Leica II copy. The variety of real cameras, not fakes but many in many cases Leica copies, is very wide.

http://www.sovietcams.com/index3006.html?tmpl_into[0]=index&tmpl_name[0]=m_site_index2&tmpl_into[1]=middle&tmpl_id[1]=55&tmpl_into[2]=menu_4&tmpl_name[2]=m_text_block&e_id[2]=6&_m_e_id=2&_menu_i_id=3;0&no_cache=1

The fakes are mainly from after WWII. They gave FSU cameras a bad name, but, in reality, many very fine cameras were produced in the FSU. 

William 

 

[Anbaric]

The simplest specification I can see in a Leica-inspired Soviet camera is the FED Zarya, which has no rangefinder but still has a built-in viewfinder, so doesn't look at all like a Leica I. So I assume all Leica I copies are made from Soviet cameras that have had the rangefinder removed, with something like the Zorki C (Zorki S) being a suitable donor, because it can't otherwise be made to look much like a Leica.

The Zorki 3M is pretty stylish camera, incidentally - pity they uglified the later models.

[pippy]

2 hours ago, willeica said:

I don't believe that one was made, but you can enjoy looking through this to find one. The first FED was a Leica II copy...

From what I've read the very first FEDs were copies of the Leica I. I believe the camera pictured below was produced before the Leica II was released;

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As far as I can remember (I read this article many years ago!) they didn't make many - this is the only photograph I've ever seen showing one - and I believe it was created in the vein of being a prototype for future production. Once the Leica II appeared on the market FED decided to go down that route for their subsequent production models.

Incidentally, from the same source, the reason given for FED not mass-producing Black Lacquer cameras (200 of the PEO 125 in the SovietCams link) was that they couldn't formulate a finish which was durable enough.

Philip.

EDIT : I've finished my homework and can correct a few errors in the above text!

Planning for recreating the FED 'Leica' cameras was formally initiated on the 2nd June 1932 (therefore four months after the Leica II appeared) and a dedicated experimental department to manufacture the camera was establised some 19 days later. The first three cameras - all copies of the Leica I Model A - were completed by the 26th October that year. There would eventually be 30 examples of the Leica I copies made before manufacture of the first 'Leica II'-style cameras took over.

For anyone interested in the genesis of the FED company here's a link to the original article mentioned earlier and from which the above photograph and information were sourced;

https://www.fedka.com/Useful_info/Commune_by_Fricke/commune_A.htm

Interestingly - considering the OP - there is mention, around half-way down the page, of a 'Geodesy Factory'-made Leica II copy!;

"...The Geodeziya Zavod [Geodesy Factory] in Moscow distributed the first 50 examples of its Leica II copy in early 1934..."

Edited May 10, 2021 by pippy

[willeica]

2 hours ago, pippy said:

From what I've read the very first FEDs were copies of the Leica I. I believe the camera pictured below was produced before the Leica II was released;

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

As far as I can remember (I read this article many years ago!) they didn't make many - this is the only photograph I've ever seen showing one - and I believe it was created in the vein of being a prototype for future production. Once the Leica II appeared on the market FED decided to go down that route for their subsequent production models.

Incidentally, from the same source, the reason given for FED not mass-producing Black Lacquer cameras (200 of the PEO 125 in the SovietCams link) was that they couldn't formulate a finish which was durable enough.

Philip.

EDIT : I've finished my homework and can correct a few errors in the above text!

Planning for recreating the FED 'Leica' cameras was formally initiated on the 2nd June 1932 (therefore four months after the Leica II appeared) and a dedicated experimental department to manufacture the camera was establised some 19 days later. The first three cameras - all copies of the Leica I Model A - were completed by the 26th October that year. There would eventually be 30 examples of the Leica I copies made before manufacture of the first 'Leica II'-style cameras took over.

For anyone interested in the genesis of the FED company here's a link to the original article mentioned earlier and from which the above photograph and information were sourced;

https://www.fedka.com/Useful_info/Commune_by_Fricke/commune_A.htm

Interestingly - considering the OP - there is mention, around half-way down the page, of a 'Geodesy Factory'-made Leica II copy!;

"...The Geodeziya Zavod [Geodesy Factory] in Moscow distributed the first 50 examples of its Leica II copy in early 1934..."

Thanks Philip. I had forgotten the Fedka site and that reference to the 'Geodesy Factory' is interesting. The camera referenced above is not, of course, one that might have been produced as a test or prototype in advance of the FED. I had forgotten too about this wonderful left handed camera .

Article here:

https://www.macfilos.com/2016/06/05/2016-6-2-leica-copies-left-handed-camera-anyone/

This sold for €1920, including premium, at the June 2016 Westlicht Auction. It seems that at the time I concluded or was told that the camera was from the 1980s. It was described thus in the auction catalogue:

'Russian laterally reversed copy of an early Leica camera in working condition, see 'The Authentic Guide to Russian and Soviet Cameras' by Jean Loup Princelle page 101'

You probably have that book.

William

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pippy]

24 minutes ago, willeica said:

...'Russian laterally reversed copy of an early Leica camera in working condition, see 'The Authentic Guide to Russian and Soviet Cameras' by Jean Loup Princelle page 101'......You probably have that book...

Hello, William!

No! I don't have the book but it's a volume whose existence I occasionally remember and promise myself I must buy and then forget about it once more! It might have been out of print when, several years ago, I searched for it but the only examples I could find were used and prohibitively priced.

I've just had a scan and see that it is available for a reasonable sum so, as I'm quite interested in the FSU cameras, should probably buy a copy as an early B'day present to myself. Thanks for the reminder!

And, yes; the 'left-hooker' really is a rather wonderful, remarkable creation.

Philip.

Edited May 10, 2021 by pippy

[Pyrogallol]

Left handed people are quietly discriminated against all the time over manufactured goods, right down to the labels on bottles and printing on pens and pencils.

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Pyrogallol,

Discrimination against Left Handed People is 1 of the biggest areas of discrimination of groups of people on the Planet. Since, as with most mammals, People (Like giraffes & squirrels.) are around  90% 1 way (In this instance: Right Handed.), around 10% the symetry (In this instance Left Handed), and around 2% or 3% Other (In this instance Ambidextrous, Etc.).

In China historically there was a large amount of manufacturing of ambidextrous things such as cups & teapots to be used by right handed & left handed people equally before trade became significant with Western Countries. When there was a demand for Chinese Porcelain from the West it was often ordered in a right handed format. So the traditional designs were altered for exported pieces. Interestingly Western People also often wanted things with Fronts & Backs instead of the continuous or symetrical designs that were more prevalent in China.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 11, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

On re-reading my Post #13, just above, I realized something about what I had just written: Generally I write in an ambidextrous manner, also keeping in mind that more people read these Threads than write in them. And so, I try to write in a manner that helps & includes as many people as I can.

In my Post just above I was writing to a left handed person so when I wrote " Western People also often wanted things with Fronts & Backs instead of the more continuous or symetrical designs that were more prevalent in China." I didn't think to explain what that meant since the person who I was writing to is left handed. I did not need to explain.

If you pick up a teapot with your left hand instead of your right hand then the back becomes the front. Another day in the life of Left Handed People.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Pyrogallol]

Yes, that is what I meant when I included labels on bottles. Held in the left hand the caps open up correctly if you hold the bottle with the back label facing you. And some kettles only have the water level indicator window on the right hand holding side.

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[luigi bertolotti]

18 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Left handed people are quietly discriminated against all the time over manufactured goods, right down to the labels on bottles and printing on pens and pencils....

... and cameras... but Leitz once thought to them... but probably decided that the "market share" was too little 🙄 ... 

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.. and never listed this accessory (sorry for low quality pic...)

[Pyrogallol]

They do appear for sale occasionally, at silly prices.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265152711870?hash=item3dbc554cbe:i:265152711870

[jc_braconi]

Here is one for illustration and very usable for me

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

With "M" film cameras: Altho the range/viewfinders are ambiocculus, the rest of the camera is relentlessly right handed.

Best Regards,

Michael

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Michael Geschlecht]

8 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Yes, that is what I meant when I included labels on bottles. Held in the left hand the caps open up correctly if you hold the bottle with the back label facing you. And some kettles only have the water level indicator window on the right hand holding side.

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Hello Pyrogallol,

Wasn't the device on the left with the blue top the same device that was used as a "malevolent instrument" on an episode in the original "Beam me up Scottie" version of Star Trek?

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 11, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht