TL2 or anticipated CL2 in 2021

[ymc226]

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Hello, I currently use only SL and M type digital cameras.  After my daughter graduates next year from high school, I plan on taking her to Taiwan and Korea  (her heritage).  For travel I would like to travel lighter with one body and one zoom lens and consider autofocus essential.  I did have the Q but sold it as it was only 28mm.  Using an iPhone for photos is not a problem as I like the touchscreen interface.  How is the TL2 and CL in terms of IQ in 2021?  I've read that the CL2 is coming but not to expect a TL3.  Is the sensor performance adequate for daytime photos outdoors which is my main focus.  My style is not night time or indoors and my main output is print,  color and B&W up to 16" x 20".   Seeing the TL2 with its native Leica 18mm lens, it seems pocketable but limiting as it is only one focal length.  

In regards to the TL2 specifically, the add on Visoflex seems out of place and easy to damage as well as limiting battery life.  Do TL/2 users use the back screen to frame just like an iPhone or is the external finder a necessity?  

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[jaapv]

You will be hard pushed to see any difference between CL, TL2, SL and M images for the use intended. Adequate? Seriously good is a better description.

For light travel I would advise the CL with the 18-56 as being the most universal combo. The TL2 with the 18 and no Visoflex (*) is quite good as a pocketable camera, but more limited than for instance an iPhone 11 or 12.

 

(*) I don't use the Visoflex for the reasons you mention, and the price. The 18 with an optical 24 mm viewfinder in the hot shoe works just fine. I prefer the TL in that case for the built-in flash.

[wda]

CL plus standard Zoom will cover all of your needs and will surprise you for its weight/bulk/Performance advantages.

[jaapv]

To add, I am not sure whether a CL2 will offer anything to make me upgrade - I am more likely to buy a second CL body at a low price. It is that good.

[ramarren]

Our lens choices vary by a little bit ... I have often eschewed anything other than a fast normal lens for a one-lens travel kit ... but the CL has proven itself a versatile and easy companion on quite a few trips now. I use the rear screen as well as the EVF for my framing and focusing needs: whichever is more appropriate for the specific situation. The lack of a built in flash unit has not proven any limitation ... I only rarely use flash and always use a remote RF trigger when I do so I can position the light better. 

I'd describe the CL's imaging qualities as much better than just "adequate". At anything other than the high extreme ISO settings, it is the equal of the SL and recent M digital bodies. What lens you put on it is the most important discriminator. 

I don't own any of the TL or SL series lenses at present; I use my existing M and R lenses exclusively. The CL fitted with my 1972 issue Summilux 35mm f/1.4 pre-ASPH is absolutely delightful, fitted with my Voigtländer Color-Skopar 28mm f/3.5 it's equally wonderful, etc. But you can't go wrong with the TL series zooms, if that's what you prefer: to a lens, they are all darn good performers at the very least.

I'd once considered the Leica T and thought it a very nice body for its feel, but was not as thrilled with the control interface as I am with the CL's controls. The CL just seems simpler and easier to me, and the built-in EVF much more convenient. 

No one can make your final decision but yourself. Find a Leica retailer and feel both cameras in person...

good luck! G

Edited May 2, 2021 by ramarren

[geoffreyg]

Just to confirm the above - I'm a big sensor guy - full frame or medium format. Of course the smaller sensor can't be as good... except that tech'l marches on, and the improvements from the cel phone industry (chips) has pushed the limits forward. The CL is remarkably good and well up to 16x20 prints. I keep wondering, go shoot with it, and whammo, there it is: just as good as one could wish. Its just delightful and amazing. And seconding the 18-56mm lens. Between the two, you will be more than surprised. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by geoffreyg

[Einst_Stein]

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18-56mm is the most useful lens on CL, especially for travel or long hiking.

In fact, I like it so much that I replaced it with X Vario. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Einst_Stein

[aksclix]

I am a little underwhelmed by the disturbing noise levels even at 1600 ISO in the CL. It’s not the same with a Nikon Z50 or a Sony a6600... they’re more tolerant at higher ISOs. Unless the CL2 offers higher ISO tolerance, I am not sure if it’s a meaningful update to the line 

[jaapv]

You should also look at the image detoriation and colour shifts caused by the in- camera noise reduction. The CL has virtually none but a similar photographic dynamic range which means that the burden is thrown on the user’s postprocessing. 

[ymc226]

Thank you to all that have commented.  I have been convinced and have called my local Leica Store and placed my name on the CL2 wait list.  There would be about 10 people in front of me.  The store representative intimated the CL2 may be (very) close to being announced; I hope so as I may start traveling domestically again and would take the CL2 over my other camera systems.  She did state that the TL 23 Summicron is the lens I should go with.  It is much smaller than my plan for the 18-56 zoom but obviously less versatile and indicated that the Summicron had much more "pop."  My preference remains, if possible, one lens/body combo, auto focus for a high quality point and shoot experience with my family to minimize any fussing with prints being the final goal.  

[ggweci]

6 hours ago, ymc226 said:

Thank you to all that have commented.  I have been convinced and have called my local Leica Store and placed my name on the CL2 wait list.  There would be about 10 people in front of me.  The store representative intimated the CL2 may be (very) close to being announced; I hope so as I may start traveling domestically again and would take the CL2 over my other camera systems.  She did state that the TL 23 Summicron is the lens I should go with.  It is much smaller than my plan for the 18-56 zoom but obviously less versatile and indicated that the Summicron had much more "pop."  My preference remains, if possible, one lens/body combo, auto focus for a high quality point and shoot experience with my family to minimize any fussing with prints being the final goal.  

Surprised that they have a “wait list” for a camera that has not been announced.  That, and the rep’s comments that it could come soon, definitely has my interest piqued. 

[wda]

7 hours ago, ggweci said:

Surprised that they have a “wait list” for a camera that has not been announced.  That, and the rep’s comments that it could come soon, definitely has my interest piqued. 

Welcome, gg.   As a newcomer, why is your interest aroused?

Edited May 3, 2021 by wda

[EUSe]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb ymc226:

Thank you to all that have commented.  I have been convinced and have called my local Leica Store and placed my name on the CL2 wait list.  There would be about 10 people in front of me.  The store representative intimated the CL2 may be (very) close to being announced; I hope so as I may start traveling domestically again and would take the CL2 over my other camera systems.  She did state that the TL 23 Summicron is the lens I should go with.  It is much smaller than my plan for the 18-56 zoom but obviously less versatile and indicated that the Summicron had much more "pop."  My preference remains, if possible, one lens/body combo, auto focus for a high quality point and shoot experience with my family to minimize any fussing with prints being the final goal.  

I started with a CL body and the Summicron TL 23, wonderfully light-weight,  but very soon  regretted it. It is definitely not versatile enough, so after a couple of weeks the 18-56 followed - while being a compromise still the best for travel and hiking.

[wda]

34 minutes ago, EUSe said:

I started with a CL body and the Summicron TL 23, wonderfully light-weight,  but very soon  regretted it. It is definitely not versatile enough, so after a couple of weeks the 18-56 followed - while being a compromise still the best for travel and hiking.

And those two lenses make for a compact and very versatile travel kit. Pushed to select one lens for travel: it would have to be the standard zoom lens.

Edited May 3, 2021 by wda

[jaapv]

17 hours ago, ymc226 said:

Thank you to all that have commented.  I have been convinced and have called my local Leica Store and placed my name on the CL2 wait list.  There would be about 10 people in front of me.  The store representative intimated the CL2 may be (very) close to being announced; I hope so as I may start traveling domestically again and would take the CL2 over my other camera systems.  She did state that the TL 23 Summicron is the lens I should go with.  It is much smaller than my plan for the 18-56 zoom but obviously less versatile and indicated that the Summicron had much more "pop."  My preference remains, if possible, one lens/body combo, auto focus for a high quality point and shoot experience with my family to minimize any fussing with prints being the final goal.  

A good choice though I would disagree with the rep’s assertion. The 18-56 is probably the best lens in its class on the market. Have a look though the CL image thread

[ramarren]

Until I see what the alleged "CL2" has to offer over the CL model, I have no interest in it. I have no such issues with 'noise @ ISO 1600' and above, but then again I always capture in raw and rarely accept the meter's exposure setting without some adjustment. I've made some very acceptable exposures at ISO 12500, like this one in a little country chapel in the UK, St Swithun's. The Madonna was in a tiny alcove behind a curtain. I couldn't even see it, just set the focus and the exposure and made an exposure:

https://flic.kr/p/2kWoNwA

St Swithun Church Madonna - Compton Beauchamp, UK 2018 :: Leica CL + Elmarit-R 28mm f/2.8 :: ISO 12500 @ f/2.8 @ 1/8 sec

About the only thing I'm missing with the CL is a port for a wired remote release. Don't need IBIS, or OIS, or more pixels, or more dynamic range, or anything really. Just a wired remote, that would make it much handier on a copy stand. 

G

Edited May 3, 2021 by ramarren

[dfdann]

That photo is amazing. I have the same camera and lens in addition to 18mm, 23mm, 55-135 TL. I have no interest inCl2 unless it is really something super special. Cheers, Dan

[SoarFM]

18-56 zoom is a stellar lens.

Today I used it on my SL2 for a family event that involved some indoor shooting and no opportunity to change lenses. The SL2 gave me the benefit of image stabilization which is the only reason I didn't use the CL.

I continue to be stunned at the quality of the 18-56, edge to edge, wide open throughout the whole range. It is a fairly slow lens which means depth of field is fairly large, even when wide open, particularly when compared to full frame SL and M prime lenses

 

 

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[ymc226]

On 5/2/2021 at 9:26 AM, Einst_Stein said:

18-56mm is the most useful lens on CL, especially for travel or long hiking.

In fact, I like it so much that I replaced it with X Vario. 

 

On 5/3/2021 at 1:08 AM, EUSe said:

I started with a CL body and the Summicron TL 23, wonderfully light-weight,  but very soon  regretted it. It is definitely not versatile enough, so after a couple of weeks the 18-56 followed - while being a compromise still the best for travel and hiking.

 

On 5/3/2021 at 4:28 AM, jaapv said:

A good choice though I would disagree with the rep’s assertion. The 18-56 is probably the best lens in its class on the market. Have a look though the CL image thread

 

16 hours ago, SoarFM said:

18-56 zoom is a stellar lens.

Today I used it on my SL2 for a family event that involved some indoor shooting and no opportunity to change lenses. The SL2 gave me the benefit of image stabilization which is the only reason I didn't use the CL.

I continue to be stunned at the quality of the 18-56, edge to edge, wide open throughout the whole range. It is a fairly slow lens which means depth of field is fairly large, even when wide open, particularly when compared to full frame SL and M prime lenses

 

 

Just ordered the 18-56 TL zoom based on all the positive opinions.  Now just need to wait to use it when the CL2 finally arrives.  Might not be wise, but this is the first instance of buying a lens before the camera (although I can use it on my SL/2)

[jaapv]

Get a used T to tide you over; It should be South of 500$ and you can always sell afterwards (but you may want to keep it )