a dramatic proof of the new 35 APO supremacy?

[hdmesa]

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1 hour ago, astrostl said:

Was this tested without coding on both somewhere? I see a lot of "unfair fights" out there where (only) the Leica lens has in-camera vignette fixes because of coding.

Good point. Not sure about Lightroom, but in Capture One, there are no corrections applied to DNGs from the M10-R even when Lens Detection was set to On. I should try to find some DNG files taken with the Leica 50 APO and look at them in C1.

For the CV 50 APO, if I use one of the Leica 50mm f2 profiles, it removes most or all of the vignetting from the JPEG (helpful for getting a good exposure in camera when using Live View). IIRC, there is no in-camera profile for the Leica 50 APO available for me to select. If there were, that would show how much of the CV vignetting it removes and/or leaves behind, and from that we could deduce how much vignetting Leica expected their 50 APO to have had.

Leica M in-camera lens correction profiles are a bit hit-or-miss anyway since the camera rarely guesses the exact aperture I have the lens set to. That means you can have a shot that was taken at f/2, but the EXIF and lens correction was applied for f/4. Not sure this is of much use, IMO. Plus the Leica vignetting I've experienced thus far is extraordinary in quality (50 Lux and 50 Cron) – it feels more natural and blended than the CV vignetting. The CV vignetting (to my eye) looks too much like a fake filter applied in post with that unnatural bright spot in the center.

Edited April 30, 2021 by hdmesa

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[wizard]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb fotografr:

Flare resistance has more to do with lens coating than design, or maybe I'm misinformed about that as well.

I guess both points are important. If an optical system is badly designed, even the best coatings will only help to prevent flare to a certain extent. Then again, flare prevention is but one of the many design goals an optical designer thrives to achieve.

[hdmesa]

58 minutes ago, fotografr said:

So, the designer doesn't determine how to put the pieces of glass together? Karbe's only role was to select the glass and calculate how to grind it? I guess I've been misinformed.

As to the bokeh, I find the 50 Summilux ASPH vastly more pleasing in the OOF areas than the APO 50. I do not have the APO 35 for comparison, but I find the bokeh and flare resistance of the 35 Summilux FLE to be quite satisfactory.

Flare resistance has more to do with lens coating than design, or maybe I'm misinformed about that as well.

 

5 minutes ago, wizard said:

I guess both points are important. If an optical system is badly designed, even the best coatings will only help to prevent flare to a certain extent. Then again, flare prevention is but one of the many design goals an optical designer thrives to achieve.

 

The 50 APO had a flare issue when it first came out – didn't it turn out to be an assembly issue they fixed? It's more than just coatings – quality of the glass used, how the elements are spaced out in the design, how well the internals minimize reflections, etc.

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

The 50 APO had a flare issue when it first came out – didn't it turn out to be an assembly issue they fixed? It's more than just coatings – quality of the glass used, how the elements are spaced out in the design, how well the internals minimize reflections, etc.

The Summarit M lenses were said to have better flare resistance than the counterpart Summicrons (35mm in particular), in part as a result of blackening of the internal rear assembly. Just one small example beyond lens coatings. 

Jeff

[mmradman]

11 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The Summarit M lenses were said to have better flare resistance than the counterpart Summicrons (35mm in particular), in part as a result of blackening of the internal rear assembly. Just one small example beyond lens coatings. 

Jeff

Dropping Summarits could be part of a long term strategy.

Maybe next generation of M lenses, in addition to adding APO and reducing MFD, will have QC (finally) applied to ensure glass element edges are consistently blackened to reduce/eliminate reflections.  No doubt these lenses would be launched as next best thing, and priced appropriately, wait for next review by Jono. 😄 

[fotografr]

58 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

 

 

The 50 APO had a flare issue when it first came out – didn't it turn out to be an assembly issue they fixed? It's more than just coatings – quality of the glass used, how the elements are spaced out in the design, how well the internals minimize reflections, etc.

Yes, I recall that very well. I did not ever hear, however, that the problem was resolved by actually changing the glass or completely redesigning the optics. My impression was that it was a lens coating issue and, as Jeff pointed out, blackening the inside of the barrel. I'm sure others have more direct knowledge than I do.

Edited April 30, 2021 by fotografr

[mmradman]

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2 hours ago, fotografr said:

Yes, I recall that very well. I did not ever hear, however, that the problem was resolved by actually changing the glass or completely redesigning the optics. My impression was that it was a lens coating issue and, as Jeff pointed out, blackening the inside of the barrel. I'm sure others have more direct knowledge than I do.

The issue was an old story of late, the Leica QC dropped the ball, lens elements were not consistently blackened.  Initially when problem was first reported Leica responded with silence, eventually acknowledging the problem, affected lenses were recalled. I believe the remedy was disassembly and applying black paint to lens elements. There may be odd unserviced copy if someone bought it to adorn his collection and never use it, it will no doubt go in value in the future.

I bought new copy in early 2016, never experienced any flare issues and I tend to shoot into the sun.

[astrostl]

7 hours ago, hdmesa said:

IIRC, there is no in-camera profile for the Leica 50 APO available for me to select. If there were, that would show how much of the CV vignetting it removes and/or leaves behind, and from that we could deduce how much vignetting Leica expected their 50 APO to have had.

That would be a neat one!

[hillavoider]

The voightlander 35 1.2 weighs 332 grams and is really impressive..     and 1/10 the price.......and I still want the Leica ....    why .... Veblen right ?  . .   Gotta be 

Edited May 2, 2021 by hillavoider

[RoySmith]

While we like to think we are logical, the most important decisions in life are based on emotion - like what career we choose, who we marry, and which camera/lens we buy.

Buy what makes you happy !

[rramesh]

"I have the best resolving 35".
"I have the best low light 35".
"I have the lightest 35".
"I have the most expensive 35".
"I have the supreme 35".

"Oops! I left them at home, with my Leica".

"Here goes!" and I take the photo with my iPhone 12.

Edited May 13, 2021 by rramesh