Why is the Leica 35 Summilux Double ASPHERICAL (AA) so special

[M10Alpine]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi tell me about this lene and what makes it so special ? 

At around 20k I like to understand the lens better

 

David

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[MarkP]

Can you afford to understand this lens better? 😁

[Jeff S]

Discussed...

Jeff

[Chuck Albertson]

It's rare.

[SiggiGun]

It is a rare lens and the technic to polish the asperical lens was very manual

[01af]

It's a rare lens; that's what makes it special — to collectors.

To users, it is not special at all. Performance, rendition, and bokeh are quite similar to the Summilux-M 35 mm Asph FLE's ... not identical, but very close.

[M10Alpine]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

What makes it so special? Like in detail? Or is it just rare?

 

[M10Alpine]

4 hours ago, 01af said:

It's a rare lens; that's what makes it special — to collectors.

To users, it is not special at all. Performance, rendition, and bokeh are quite similar to the Summilux-M 35 mm Asph FLE's ... not identical, but very close.

Ok - thx

 

[padam]

THE LEICA 35MM F/1.4 SUMMILUX ASPHERICAL VS. ASPH FLE

Edited April 18, 2021 by padam

[pedaes]

15 hours ago, M10Alpine said:

At around 20k I like to understand the lens better

Performance wise it is not as good as the FLE you mention. It's current price is driven only by its rarity /collectors market, not by it's performance.

[M10Alpine]

2 hours ago, padam said:

THE LEICA 35MM F/1.4 SUMMILUX ASPHERICAL VS. ASPH FLE

Very interesting. So just hype, nothing wrong with that. Its hard to see in compressed format but interesting reading. 

[pedaes]

10 minutes ago, M10Alpine said:

Very interesting

See also here - some background http://photo.imx.nl//styled-10/leica/styled-35/

[Guest Nowhereman]

17 minutes ago, M10Alpine said:

Very interesting. So just hype...

No, that's not what Josh Lehrer (Red Dot ) says in the review. He states: After shooting with both lenses, I found myself intrigued by the qualities that the older, double aspherical lens exhibited. While not as “technically” perfect, I found it had LESS chromatic aberration at f/1.4 than the modern lens, and had a “dreamier” way of rendering out of focus areas. It is not as sharp near the edges as the FLE lens and has slightly less contrast, as one would expect from a film-era lens...Conclusions? I am amazed at how well the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 Aspherical performs, considering was it designed in the late 1980s, 20 years before a digital Leica M camera would be available. It is easy for me to see why this lens is so highly prized, especially in the pre-35mm FLE days. The Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH FLE is a great lens, however I doubt that we will ever see a lens as unique as the double-aspherical...

He is referring to the OOF rendering of the AA lens — and, it seems to me, this reflects what we see in the images that @Steven has posted earlier. 
_______________________________________
Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram

 

[padam]

2 hours ago, pedaes said:

Performance wise it is not as good as the FLE you mention. It's current price is driven only by its rarity /collectors market, not by it's performance.

Look at the full-sized examples from the link, it is actually the opposite.
In the image centre the FLE seems to be not as sharp wide-open with more chromatic aberrations.
Hard to judge the corners because both lenses exhibit a different type of field curvature, so different things will be in focus.

With the second example the focus point seems to be slightly different, but both seem to be sharp at the focus point.

On the third example, I would give the win to the AA again over the FLE, more of the sign is in focus which indicates less field curvature.

What is clearly visible is that even without floating elements, the AA seems very sharp (that tested copy anyways, there might be more variation with older lenses)

It might carry a lot of collectors' value, but it is also optically superb and not inferior to the current FLE (which of course is also superb in its own right). It would be interesting to see the general design of the AA but also modernised with floating elements. If they can sell enough 35/2 APO-Summicron-M lenses at that price point, then they might be able to sell something that is more unique but even more expensive.
Just like the Noctilux 50/1.2, they can probably make lenses like this again using more modern manufacturing technologies.

Edited April 18, 2021 by padam

[pedaes]

41 minutes ago, padam said:

it is actually the opposite.

If you like the rendering , great and it is a good lens. However, for a more detailed and measured analysis you need to look somewhere like Puts lens review. Again, the price is dictated by the collector market, not its performance however good that might be. Another example of this is the original Nocti f1.2, now of course joined by the chrome version of the re-release - identical performance to black version but silly money being asked (offers on €888888 at Schouten), and probably paid, because it sold out its limited production run.

[padam]

4 minutes ago, pedaes said:

If you like the rendering , great and it is a good lens. However, for a more detailed and measured analysis you need to look somewhere like Puts lens review. Again, the price is dictated by the collector market, not its performance however good that might be. Another example of this is the original Nocti f1.2, now of course joined by the chrome version of the re-release - identical performance to black version but silly money being asked (offers on €888888 at Schouten), and probably paid, because it sold out its limited production run.

Sorry, but when I can look at actual examples or even pictures side-by-side to judge sharpness, all the other analysis is quite meaningless next to it.

[Al Brown]

19 hours ago, M10Alpine said:

At around 20k I like to understand the lens better

It is not priced to understand but to worship.

[M10Alpine]

5 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

It is not priced to understand but to worship.

 

 

True

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Anbaric]

I always wonder with this sort of thing what would happen if someone randomly shuffled 50 images taken with one, and 50 with the other, unlabelled, and asked a discerning photographer to (a) go through them and score the image quality of each, then (b) tell them the shots were taken with two different lenses and ask if they could distinguish between them. How much are we influenced by our expectations about a rare and expensive lens?

[pedaes]

22 minutes ago, padam said:

quite meaningless next to it

To you maybe, but scientific analysis is never meaningless. Why do Leica issue MTF graphs for every lens they produce? Look, just go with your own judgement and be happy, but be aware there is quite a difference between a low res screen image and a A2 print.