Massive 50mm comparison test

[Harpomatic]

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24 minutes ago, Fgcm said:

I suspect the summicron you tested is a bad copy or needs a calibration.

Thanks for the comment! Yes, I am positive that it has a problem. It’s going to the doctor soon!

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[Harpomatic]

20 minutes ago, giannis said:

Apologies if that wasn't clear from my first post, your review is greatly appreciated!

And I hope I'm also clear when I mentioned that I don't consider it a good technical lens, but a good people lens, for the reasons described. Maybe I waxed too lyrical about it, but I was just excited this kind of lens exists and at this price, cause it's a look I really enjoy! And I can describe that look objectively too, and the flaws that cause it (like spherical aberrations, field curvature, slight geometric distortion, etc.). If someone doesn't like the look, then obviously it's not for them. But if someone, like me, spent almost as much on promist filters and Softar filters  (along with many sprayed/vaselined UV filters and ripped pantyhoses) to get this particular look, then they're gonna like the lens.

Anyway, the sonnar design is a specialty design. For instance, i couldn't think of anything worse for architecture . But that's obvious cause the Sonnar design has been completely dominated in the market by double gauss (and even more specifically planar and modified planar) designs. Sonnars (and Tessars and Ultrons - the original one for the Voigtlander Brilliant, which is the only other non planar design) are pretty much dead commercially, which is a shame for those among us that like them, and why we get excited when they're re-introduced.

Apologies for what? I understood completely, and I fully agree with what you say.

I appreciate the fact that you took time to describe the strengths that you see in the Sonnar design and specifically the 7Artisans. I completely see why you like it given your search for the promist/Softar filters!

I certainly didn’t know that the Ultron was a different design, I’m going to look into it. I was wondering when looking into the designs for these lenses, if not Planar or Sonnar they were all modified double Gauss ones! And now I realise that Planar is a double Gauss as well. This is why I was looking forward to a discussion here, there is so much to learn from each other and I find these bits of information excellent to spin-off and learn more. Thanks!

[Harpomatic]

22 minutes ago, duoenboge said:

Harpomatic, I expect the same comparison for thr 35mm. When can we expect the report? 😉

😱 can I take a few days off first? 🥴

[giannis]

2 minutes ago, Harpomatic said:

Apologies for what? I understood completely, and I fully agree with what you say.

I appreciate the fact that you took time to describe the strengths that you see in the Sonnar design and specifically the 7Artisans. I completely see why you like it given your search for the promist/Softar filters!

I certainly didn’t know that the Ultron was a different design, I’m going to look into it. I was wondering when looking into the designs for these lenses, if not Planar or Sonnar they were all modified double Gauss ones! And now I realise that Planar is a double Gauss as well. This is why I was looking forward to a discussion here, there is so much to learn from each other and I find these bits of information excellent to spin-off and learn more. Thanks!

I enjoy the conversation too!

Just to be clear, I made a typo, I meant the original Nokton for the Voigtländer Brillant rangefinder. The Ultron is, big surprise, modified double gauss again 😜

[Harpomatic]

2 minutes ago, giannis said:

The Ultron is, big surprise, modified double gauss again 😜

Damn! You shattered my dream! 🤣

[tgray]

Very nice review. While my Summilux does flare when tested with a flashlight, it doesn’t do it like that. Nor has it really ever been problematic while shooting (maybe just luck?)

The Nokton II looks like a great value. I’m sure I’d be shooting with that had I bought the Summilux more than a decade ago.

The Sonnar is a funny lens. I really enjoy mine even though technically it is subpar. I’m glad it exists; it’s nice to have a new modernized version of a classic. 

[Harpomatic]

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4 minutes ago, tgray said:

Very nice review. While my Summilux does flare when tested with a flashlight, it doesn’t do it like that. Nor has it really ever been problematic while shooting (maybe just luck?)

Thanks for the comment.

To be honest the Lux flared on me even in normal use when I was not expecting it. This was shot at F5.6 straight out of camera:

 

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[tgray]

Oof. I just played around with mine and a bright LED flashlight. Got it to flare but not with the ‘structure’ seen in yours. 

[Adam Bonn]

What an amazing write up, thank you for the time, the effort and most of all to share the results.

I had the cron and the flaring was one of the reasons I used to convince myself to upgrade to the lux asph

Mine will flare when heavily provoked, but it’s so much better than the (v5) cron I had.

OT but I also have a CV 35/1.7 and 35 rit. I find (if I ignore the vignetting) that the CV performs better than the leica (and not just because it’s a stop faster), but the nicer hood/focusing ring design on the leica quite often means I select that lens instead.

It’s a slight shame you didn’t have the CV 50 APO, I’m a bit curious about that lens... I was also curious about owning the Planar as well, but after reading your great review I think there’s little point as I own the lux (the same’s probably true of the APO too)

Great work and genuinely helpful to at least me, and no doubt many, many others

[tgray]

Adam, I bought the CV APO (and have the Summilux too). It’s a good lens. Flare resistant, contrasty, sharp, and even across the whole frame. All right from f/2.

Certainly not a ‘need’, but between those two and the C Sonnar, it’s a lot of different looks. And cheaper than acquiring another Leica lens!  If you are happy with one 50, you have the right one in my mind (or by the looks of it, the Nokton II). If you are itching for another 50 for some irrational reason, the CV APO is worth of consideration.

[Lelmer]

12 hours ago, me111 said:

I have owned 50mm Summilux ASPH and 50mm Summicron v5. I feel that there might be something wrong with your Summilux in the flare department. My observation is that my Summilux does not flare easily (or to translate from my feeling, I almost want to say that my Summilux cannot flare.) My Summicron v5, on the other hand, tends to flare a lot.

.....

I still own both...same observation on my side...

Thank you for the comparison, Harpomatic 👍

[Adam Bonn]

8 hours ago, tgray said:

Adam, I bought the CV APO (and have the Summilux too). It’s a good lens. Flare resistant, contrasty, sharp, and even across the whole frame. All right from f/2.

Certainly not a ‘need’, but between those two and the C Sonnar, it’s a lot of different looks. And cheaper than acquiring another Leica lens!  If you are happy with one 50, you have the right one in my mind (or by the looks of it, the Nokton II). If you are itching for another 50 for some irrational reason, the CV APO is worth of consideration.

Thank you 🙏 

Well I thought about the 40 ‘cron, cos I can man-math that I don’t have a 40 and need one, then I thought planar as it seems vaguely 50cron a-like (I a bit miss my ‘cron) and doesn’t cost much more new than the 40 secondhand. Then I noticed the CV APO isn’t that much more and... 

...well you probably know how GAS works 😅

I’ll trawl through the CV APO thread later and see what I can see

[Robert Blanko]

I was surprised to see that the sharpness of the Zeiss Sonnar is that bad at f5.6. I rarely use my Zeiss but do not remember that I ever stumbled across this issue. Thus, I just made a quick test and, admittedly, I see a difference as compared to my Summilux at f5.6 when viewing on the monitor of the camera, but the difference does not seem to be that huge.

However, I realized that the hard stop at infinity does not exactly match the true infinity position. Focusing with the assistance of the visoflex revealed a significant improvement. Maybe I can share photos later.

[duoenboge]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Harpomatic:

Thanks for the comment.

To be honest the Lux flared on me even in normal use when I was not expecting it. This was shot at F5.6 straight out of camera:

 

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The beautifully part of this photo is the flair. 😉

[Casey Jefferson]

That's a lot of works, hats off to you!

I'm eyeing on the TTA 50/1.4, solely for portraits, which seem like a great choice. While it has no Leica colors, the price almost make this lens look like a steal.

I briefly had the 50lux asph, while I love the colors and the clarity out of the lens, I didn't like the way Leica chosen to make the bokeh "center weighted". At mid distance the DOF increase towards the corners thus sometimes making the busy corners distracting the otherwise creamy bokeh. This applies to 35mm fle and 50 noctilux too (probably also few others), by studying the images.

Despite the negative remarks, Leica lenses, especially modern ones, produce color tones that's pretty unique, sometimes it's not so distinctively visible in differences especially SOOC, but upon editing I was always amazed by the smoothness and richness, at the same time remain very natural and life-like.

[colonel]

Thanks so much for all this work

Very interesting

IMHO I am disappointed a bit that the CV 1.2 seems superior to the 1.5ii, as they are similar prices and I thought that something smaller and lighter but the same level or better would swing me away from the 1.2. But I think in this comparison the 1.2 is the one to buy with a balanced budget!

That is not the end of the story however, the Summilux is by far the best overall, if you don't mind the stiff focus. I have had two, unfortunately none now, and it is the premium 50mm lens IMHO regardless of platform. So if you have the money , it's a no brainer

The zeiss f2 definitely fits the bill as the budget choice, with 80% of the quality of its loftier competitors. 

And the TTArrisan 1.4 as the amazing cheap choice for those on a tight budget

I would also add another lens which we will disagree on, the TTArtisan 0.95, which I think it so good that everyone without without noctilux should have one, to go with their other 50mm

And lastly, if you don't need 1.4, the CV f2 APO and Leica f2 APO beat all these lenses for everything- as long as you like razors ....

Thanks again and happy shooting

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by colonel

[Danner]

Impressive body of work!  Well done, all around.  The poor infinity performance of the Summicron doesn't agree with my experience, mine is razor sharp at infinity.  Might be a calibration issue?

[tgray]

4 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

Thank you 🙏 

Well I thought about the 40 ‘cron, cos I can man-math that I don’t have a 40 and need one, then I thought planar as it seems vaguely 50cron a-like (I a bit miss my ‘cron) and doesn’t cost much more new than the 40 secondhand. Then I noticed the CV APO isn’t that much more and... 

...well you probably know how GAS works 😅

I’ll trawl through the CV APO thread later and see what I can see

Yeah, I have zero need for a 3rd 50, but it looked interesting, a bit different from my other two, and having a razor of a lens, even across the field seemed interesting. And I have more than 1 camera, so I should have more than one 50, right?
 

My rationale for the C Sonnar purchase the other year was that Zeiss was running a 50th Anniversary sale for the Apollo missions, and I work for a certain agency... so yeah 😜

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Keith (M)]

Flare with a 50mm Summilux-ASPH?  How dare you - this magnificent lens is incapable of flare.  Oh, wait a moment...  

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On M10M with orange filter.

[arichter]

No doubt it does flare under certain conditions. My problem with the tests is that Summicron 50mm is much more flare resistant than the Summilux (*** vs *) which is not my experience. And OP himself recognized this was unexpected.

Edited February 26, 2021 by arichter