Bought new MP but it's missing the outer white box. Is it important?

[earleygallery]

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BH probably won't take the camera back - most retailers insist returns must include ALL original packaging and accessories, but you're missing a box and LHSA card...........

[petereprice]

Did you end up sorting this out with B&H?  I just picked up a brand new Leica Q2 Monochrom from B&H without the outer white box.  I examined the contents inside and nothing looked touched at all.  Everything looked brand new, unopened and pristine.  Only thing missing was the outer box.  I’m starting to wonder if B&H chooses to remove the outer boxes to avoid any confusion of items in their very busy warehouse.  

Just curious what resulted of your conversation with B&H….

[Crem]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:47 PM, petereprice said:

Did you end up sorting this out with B&H?  I just picked up a brand new Leica Q2 Monochrom from B&H without the outer white box.  I examined the contents inside and nothing looked touched at all.  Everything looked brand new, unopened and pristine.  Only thing missing was the outer box.  I’m starting to wonder if B&H chooses to remove the outer boxes to avoid any confusion of items in their very busy warehouse.  

Just curious what resulted of your conversation with B&H….

I have always received a sealed outer box from BH. They don’t remove them.

[RayD28]

The outer box has the model and serial number.  So you might find another outer box but it won't meet the criteria some buyers seek.  Even if I buy a beater camera or lens it's still nice to get the original box and goodies.  The white outer box is not important to me, but if an outer box did not match the serial numbers I'd feel cheated unless disclosed by the seller.  Of course others may feel differently.  

[petereprice]

6 hours ago, RayD28 said:

The outer box has the model and serial number.  So you might find another outer box but it won't meet the criteria some buyers seek.  Even if I buy a beater camera or lens it's still nice to get the original box and goodies.  The white outer box is not important to me, but if an outer box did not match the serial numbers I'd feel cheated unless disclosed by the seller.  Of course others may feel differently.  

Yeah...in my case there was no outer box at all.  Everything looked new inside, battery was sealed, plastic was all there, etc etc...the box itself, looked a bit weathered, to be honest, but I know in the past when I have gotten cameras from Leica they generally come with that protective outer box.  I emailed B&H just to see if it's something I should worry about but in the end I imagine if the contents looked new and untouched, and I plan on using this camera for years and years, having the outer box is not going to make a difference.  However this is my first time buying a new Leica body, so I was hoping for whatever a new packaged camera is supposed to be received like.  Call me vein.  It's an expensive camera, so looking for that extra lux.  

[logan2z]

I'd personally want the outer box as that's part of the complete package as delivered from Leica.  It's nice to have if you ever decide to sell the camera.  Some buyers (like myself 😁 ) are picky and, when buying used, favor a complete kit over one with bits missing.  Yes, it's superficial but...

[wattsy]

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The joke about first world problems is well worn but I think we must be at, or approaching, peak decadence in the western world when people are concerned about the presence or otherwise of a piece of flimsy card.

I'm pretty obsessive about keeping packaging and enclosed paperwork for things like lenses and cameras but even I draw the line about caring about the "outer box" which IMO is on a par with the cellophane that most manufacturers use as the first level of packaging. If I have the outer box, I leave it in place but if it wasn't there in the first place (perhaps I bought the item from a dealer I trust and they had taken the outer box off to inspect the item, put it in a display cabinet or, horror of horrors, allowed another customer to touch it) I wouldn't give it any significant thought. If the contents look new, feel new and come with a full warranty, I'm happy.

 

[Pyrogallol]

That missing piece of paper might make all the difference to the price if you are selling it !

On a par with the Leicas you see still sealed in their heat-sealed packaging from years ago, only suitable for collectors’ collections, not for using and probably seized up from non use.

[Huss]

The thing is that "white" outer box is sealed.  You have to break the seal to open it.  It basically shows that whatever inside has been untouched.  It also has serial # information on it.

So if it is missing that outer box, the package has been opened before it got to you.

[kamek]

On 2/26/2023 at 2:36 PM, petereprice said:

Yeah...in my case there was no outer box at all.  Everything looked new inside, battery was sealed, plastic was all there, etc etc...the box itself, looked a bit weathered, to be honest, but I know in the past when I have gotten cameras from Leica they generally come with that protective outer box.  I emailed B&H just to see if it's something I should worry about but in the end I imagine if the contents looked new and untouched, and I plan on using this camera for years and years, having the outer box is not going to make a difference.  However this is my first time buying a new Leica body, so I was hoping for whatever a new packaged camera is supposed to be received like.  Call me vein.  It's an expensive camera, so looking for that extra lux.  

I shared your exact same feelings when I first bought my camera which is why this post even exists. I eventually stopped thinking about it because because B&H didn’t have an answer other than to return the camera, and I didn’t want to wait for another MP to come in with potentially the same scenario. 
 

I’ve now owned and used this camera for 2 years and couldn’t care less about that outside box. :)

[petereprice]

4 hours ago, kamek said:

I shared your exact same feelings when I first bought my camera which is why this post even exists. I eventually stopped thinking about it because because B&H didn’t have an answer other than to return the camera, and I didn’t want to wait for another MP to come in with potentially the same scenario. 
 

I’ve now owned and used this camera for 2 years and couldn’t care less about that outside box.

So I looked into it with B&H in my case, just to see if they remove the outer box on Leica products.  Sure enough, I spoke to a product specialist and they definitively told me that they do NOT typically remove the outer box, brought one out from the warehouse, and showed me what a new box should have looked like, and offered to exchange mine.  I ended up doing that.  If I were in your situation and it was a newly released hard-to-find product, I would have been fine with keeping my copy, but it's good to know in the future that typically B&H does sell it with a fully sealed box, and it's not their usual procedure to take them off.  He's not sure why it was opened but agreed given how expensive the camera was, that I should expect a completely sealed product.  B&H has excellent customer service, and either way, I'm happy to have purchased it from them.  

[rtai]

I have read many threads in many forums over decades how people buy multiple samples of the same lens from B&H to keep one and return the rest after testing for sample variation. This is one reason I don’t buy from B&H aside from accessories because no way would they willingly lose money this way if they didn’t resell returns as new. Since the day when new Leica gear came in sealed outer boxes all my new acquisitions had been sealed. No dealer I know sells new Leica gear unsealed.

Edited February 28, 2023 by rtai

[Huss]

2 hours ago, rtai said:

I have read many threads in many forums over decades how people buy multiple samples of the same lens from B&H to keep one and return the rest after testing for sample variation. This is one reason I don’t buy from B&H aside from accessories because no way would they willingly lose money this way if they didn’t resell returns as new. Since the day when new Leica gear came in sealed outer boxes all my new acquisitions had been sealed. No dealer I know sells new Leica gear unsealed.

Even worse is when people buy gear just to try it out, knowing they will return it in a couple of weeks.  And they think that is ok. 

[rtai]

18 minutes ago, Huss said:

Even worse is when people buy gear just to try it out, knowing they will return it in a couple of weeks.  And they think that is ok. 

Their generous return policy is good for some. I can’t bring myself to do that. There’s an active thread at Miranda right now and guys are buying 3 Noktons at a time from B&H to test and return. Seems the dealer is cool with it. 

[Huss]

6 minutes ago, rtai said:

Their generous return policy is good for some. I can’t bring myself to do that. There’s an active thread at Miranda right now and guys are buying 3 Noktons at a time from B&H to test and return. Seems the dealer is cool with it. 

Yeah, I think that is for a lens that is notoriously off centered?  They keep the good one, and return the other two.

At that point they are doing QA.  The issue I have is more with those who just want to try out gear, i.e. a free rental.

[hdmesa]

30 minutes ago, rtai said:

Their generous return policy is good for some. I can’t bring myself to do that. There’s an active thread at Miranda right now and guys are buying 3 Noktons at a time from B&H to test and return. Seems the dealer is cool with it. 

That is fine because Voigtlander does not seal their boxes, and they are only being quickly tested for a day or two. Most buyers wouldn't know a decentered lens from a centered one anyway, so the units will eventually get to someone who will be happy with them.

[Herr Barnack]

On 4/6/2021 at 3:10 AM, Al Brown said:

The camera loses $50 - $100 in second hand resale value if no outer grey box is present. Two dealers in EU have confirmed this, they both buy and sell second hand equipment.
Vanity par excellence, but that's just how the Leica cookie crumbles.

I don't doubt the truth of that.  It seems rather half-baked, though. 

That's the madcap Leicaverse for you.