Bought new MP but it's missing the outer white box. Is it important?

[kamek]

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Hi All! Long time lurker of many insightful convos on this forum and now have a question of my own.

 

I recently bought a new MP from B&H and it did not come with the outer white box. This camera was purchased last week (3/30/21) and the manufacturer card inside is dated January 2021. I know this box has some significance to people as it's considered "complete" packaging so I'm here to ask:

1. How important is it to have this outer white box for resale?

2. Should it have come with the outer white box, as in is this not complete packaging from the retailer? It makes me wonder if the item was returned from a previous purchase.

3. I also noticed that the International Leica Society Membership card is missing from the box. I've seen in YouTube unboxing videos that this should be included.

 

Thank you all for your help on my unusual question!

Edited April 6, 2021 by kamek
Added #3

[jaapv]

Well, it helps for resale - a bit, sometimes. Personally I don't really care about boxes, I guess that I lost about half of them.

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[logan2z]

24 minutes ago, kamek said:

Hi All! Long time lurker of many insightful convos on this forum and now have a question of my own.

 

I recently bought a new MP from B&H and it did not come with the outer white box. This camera was purchased last week (3/30/21) and the manufacturer card inside is dated January 2021. I know this box has some significance to people as it's considered "complete" packaging so I'm here to ask:

1. How important is it to have this outer white box for resale?

2. Should it have come with the outer white box, as in is this not complete packaging from the retailer? It makes me wonder if the item was returned from a previous purchase.

 

Thank you all for your help on my unusual question!

Are you referring to the unbranded grey box (at least it was grey when I bought my M-A) that contains the 'real' branded box?

I would expect my brand new camera to come with all of the original packaging, although I'm not sure how important that outer box would be to a prospective purchaser if you sell the camera down the road.  I wouldn't think it would impact resale value that much.  

[kamek]

27 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Well, it helps for resale - a bit, sometimes. Personally I don't really care about boxes, I guess that I lost about half of them.

Thank you!

9 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Are you referring to the unbranded grey box (at least it was grey when I bought my M-A) that contains the 'real' branded box?

I would expect my brand new camera to come with all of the original packaging, although I'm not sure how important that outer box would be to a prospective purchaser if you sell the camera down the road.  I wouldn't think it would impact resale value that much.  

That’s the box I’m referring to. I’m now realizing that it’s also missing the “International Leica Society” membership card. It’s just becoming suspicious that these things were not included. Normally, I’d just exchange for another, but finding one of these in stock has been near impossible. 

[Herr Barnack]

It sounds to me like your MP may be an "open box" copy as in a camera body that was on display; that could account for the missing LHSA membership card. 

The protective gray cover box may have been damaged and B&H decided to throw it out rather than send the camera out with a damaged cover box.

Those are just my guesses. 

If the camera itself is flawless with all accessories (strap, instruction manual, inspection card, body cap, etc.) accounted for and the main silver box is not damaged, I would consider the camera to be a keeper.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[kamek]

12 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

It sounds to me like your MP may be an "open box" copy as in a camera body that was on display; that could account for the missing LHSA membership card. 

The protective gray cover box may have been damaged and B&H decided to throw it out rather than send the camera out with a damaged cover box.

Those are just my guesses. 

If the camera itself is flawless with all accessories (strap, instruction manual, inspection card, body cap, etc.) accounted for and the main silver box is not damaged, I would consider the camera to be a keeper.

This is a great guess and I’m thinking this is what potentially happened. This also helps make sense of the fact that the camera has a manufacture date of Jan 2021 but was just sold in March 2021. I see that new cameras come with a manufacture date much closer to the purchase date. 
 

The rest is complete and I’m thinking it may be a keeper as well. I’m going to contact B&H tomorrow to see what’s up.

[anonymous]

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If you spend over $5k for a film camera and there's even a hint of it not being what you expect, you'd be more than reasonable to return and lay out your expectations.  The missing LHSA card is what I'd find most troubling here.

[Herr Barnack]

22 minutes ago, anonymous said:

If you spend over $5k for a film camera and there's even a hint of it not being what you expect, you'd be more than reasonable to return and lay out your expectations.  The missing LHSA card is what I'd find most troubling here.

If B&H cannot get a replacement LHSA card for you, I would think LHSA would make things right if you were to contact them, explain the missing card situation and email them an image of your B&H receipt for verification.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Al Brown]

The camera loses $50 - $100 in second hand resale value if no outer grey box is present. Two dealers in EU have confirmed this, they both buy and sell second hand equipment.
Vanity par excellence, but that's just how the Leica cookie crumbles.

[Phil_P]

or if it comes with the outer grey box you could do like this guy did!

 

[logan2z]

13 minutes ago, Phil_P said:

or if it comes with the outer grey box you could do like this guy did!

 

Now that was bizarre.  

[Al Brown]

You do not have to watch, here is the most interesting part of the video.

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[250swb]

The outer box is extremely fragile and made from very poor quality cardboard. If B&H have opened it to check everything inside is ok before sending the camera to you I could well imagine the outer box being damaged. The camera doesn't lose value if this box isn't present. It's common for potential customers to want to see the camera before buying and it would be absurd to imagine that tearing the outer box would have them stood at the counter demanding a discount. Yeah, here we go from the usual suspects 'I don't expect poor quality packing on a $5000 camera.....' 

[RayD28]

Depending on how urgent you are to own an MP, I'd return it and ask for a new MP.  The outer box is important for resale purposes in most cases.  The puzzling part is the missing LHSA card.  It sounds like the box was opened and someone forgot to put the card back, and that would make it at least an Open Box vs New .  B&H will work with you.  

Just my 2 cents.  

[wattsy]

Does the new camera work as intended? No scratched film, tilting noises, bumpy leather, etc. or any of the other LUF show stoppers? If so, my advice is to be happy with what you have and not worry about the secondhand value down the road. (Why are you thinking about selling the camera before you've even had a chance to use it?) We are talking about a crappy box made out of thick paper (it's not even what I'd call a cardboard box). It really isn't important compared to the camera inside the box.

The few remaining independent dealers must really curse Leica for introducing the "outer box" phenomenon and the associated hassle that inevitably goes with it.

Edited April 6, 2021 by wattsy

[kamek]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I haven't tested the camera yet in case B&H can't make things right. I know that the camera is what counts, but I expect a brand new and complete item when that's what I paid for (just based on principle). I gave B&H the benefit of the doubt when making the purchase but I'm having regret and should've just ordered from Leica directly when it was in stock (it was in stock at the same time as B&H but it's out of stock everywhere again).

Also worth noting: I know some retailers will open the box to stamp the warranty booklet inside, but my booklet is blank.

My claim is now with their customer service team and I'll update as the story unfolds.

[250swb]

3 hours ago, kamek said:

Thanks everyone for the replies. I haven't tested the camera yet in case B&H can't make things right. I know that the camera is what counts, but I expect a brand new and complete item when that's what I paid for (just based on principle). I gave B&H the benefit of the doubt when making the purchase but I'm having regret and should've just ordered from Leica directly when it was in stock (it was in stock at the same time as B&H but it's out of stock everywhere again).

Also worth noting: I know some retailers will open the box to stamp the warranty booklet inside, but my booklet is blank.

My claim is now with their customer service team and I'll update as the story unfolds.

The 'Passport' and all that fake bs to make it sound like increased customer rights was abolished ages ago, although for a short time added some accidental damage cover. You have a receipt from a Leica Dealer and a serial number, that is your warranty. Many dealers never stamped the card anyway, it was NEVER necessary for the customer, but maybe earned the Dealer some Brownie points.

Edited April 6, 2021 by 250swb

[kamek]

17 minutes ago, 250swb said:

The 'Passport' and all that fake bs to make it sound like increased customer rights was abolished ages ago, although for a short time added some accidental damage cover. You have a receipt from a Leica Dealer and a serial number, that is your warranty. Many dealers never stamped the card anyway, it was NEVER necessary for the customer, but maybe earned the Dealer some Brownie points.

Thank you for that clarification! I mentioned it in case anyone thought they may have opened the box to stamp the warranty booklet. It’s good to know that it’s no longer necessary. 

[tom0511]

I store the boxes (in case I wanted to sell a lens or camera one day) but started to really throw away the gray outer box.

I can understand that someone values to get the original packing, but  paying any cent more for the outer grey box? mayby. I wouldnt think so.

Even with paying high prices. IMO this is JUST a camera. What counts that it does what it should do. (IMO) We dont need white gloves, and we dont need gray outer boxes.

My answer would be: Use your new camera, enjoy the quality and feel of this great camera. Dont waste time thinking about  the grey boy, in case you want to sell it one day, I am sure you will get a good price anyways.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by tom0511

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[250swb]

26 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

I store the boxes (in case I wanted to sell a lens or camera one day) but started to really throw away the gray outer box.

I can understand that someone values to get the original packing, but  paying any cent more for the outer grey box? mayby. I wouldnt think so.

Even with paying high prices. IMO this is JUST a camera. What counts that it does what it should do. (IMO) We dont need white gloves, and we dont need gray outer boxes.

My answer would be: Use your new camera, enjoy the quality and feel of this great camera. Dont waste time thinking about  the grey boy, in case you want to sell it one day, I am sure you will get a good price anyways.

 

I admit I keep the outer box when I can, but when the dealer says 'do you want to look at the camera?' I say no and take it home to unpack. But all the outer box is is to stop the silver inner box, the important one, getting scuffed in transit, the outer box is no more than a bag the camera dealer may give you to get your camera home. I've thrown the outer box away more than once because even being careful at home it still gets ripped, and it never gets better after that. So nice, but no value, I'd hate to charge extra to somebody (as implied in other posts) because a camera had the outer box and then they ripped it on opening, it's just not worth the disappointment for a flimsy bit of tat.