Mute-on Posted April 5, 2021 Share #41 Posted April 5, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Frankly you are at least as likely to have problems with a new M-A as an old, unserviced M4, if your recent experience with the MP is any guide. A recently serviced M4 is another matter. No Leica guarantees absolute reliability, but to suggest an M-A would do so over a serviced M4, or any other film M, is an exercise in speculation. If you really want new, then buy new. Just don’t expect it to be perfect. You may be disappointed (again). Best of luck! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 5, 2021 Posted April 5, 2021 Hi Mute-on, Take a look here To old time users: M-A or M4?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gabrielaszalos Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share #42 Posted April 5, 2021 I have to admit that some messages here made me open to the M2 too. While it was off putting because of that frame counter, I do have to say I don't mind it that much in exchange for the rewind knob and film advance lever which I do prefer. Also, the M3-style loading mechanism for some reason attracts me (can't explain why but I like it). 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted April 5, 2021 Share #43 Posted April 5, 2021 There's little to choose between the M2 and the M4. I have one of each, and I'm hard-pressed to decide which I prefer. The M2 has the most beautiful and simple viewfinder. You get a single solid rectangular frame per lens, and no other distractions. It's wonderful. The re-setting of the frame counter is really a non-issue - for me anyway. Similarly the film loading. Once you get used to it, it's fast, and utterly secure. You just can't mis-load an M2. The M4 is great too. Precise and as well-built as any other Leitz era M. Rewinding is very fast. Slightly more cluttered viewfinder, but I think the M-A has that as well. Some things the M2 and M4 have that the M-A doesn't.. Real and grippy vulcanite Self timer Recessed windows (less likely to pick up fingerprints) Proper Leitz engraving on the top-plate Depth of field notches on the rangefinder patch (M2 only) The M-A looks amazing too. Never handled one, or even seen one in real life. It's a tough choice you have there. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 5, 2021 Share #44 Posted April 5, 2021 (edited) 😉Gabriel, now you have three choices. Any choice can be good choice anyway. I forgot M2 *, but I like them, I don't know why and used them before buying M-A. They are the closest to minimalist in M ** but always have the "essential". Film counter manual reset bothered me at first but with time, I don't think of it anymore as on my multiple LTM Leica that I use once in a while. * I have one with M4's VF (converted/repair ?) by the previous user. ** My two M2 of different period have never been CLAed/repaired when I use them, maybe the most reliable in older M that I use Edited April 5, 2021 by a.noctilux Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 5, 2021 Share #45 Posted April 5, 2021 May I make practical but not such a romantic suggestion of a CL as cheap but effective 'backup' alternative M4 or M-A'? I primarily use digital Ms (and SL2). However I still use a moderate amount of film: MF (Fuji GW690 III) and 35mm (M7, CL and Contax T3s). The M7 gets the most use - fabulous camera and I've never had a problem with it. Furthermore, the shutter speed dial of the M7 works in the same direction as the digital M. I have long wanted a fully mechanical M film camera as an alternative or 'backup', and often go 'widow shopping' on the net. I have considered either a 1962 M3 (my birth year) with matching 50mm Summicron, M4, or M4P (I use 28 and 75mm lenses a fair bit). I've seriously considered an M-A for the obvious reasons, and because I'd really like one. I then realised I had my pristine film CL sitting on the shelf which is actually a delight to use. It has obvious limitations: short rangefinder base, limited shutter speed range and frameline coverage of only 40, 50 and 90mm. This is the ideal 'backup' M film camera (a bit like some people here use the digital CL as backup for their M digital cameras). The film CL is cheap, reliable, small and light, the 2.0/40 Summicron-C (if I choose to take it) is an excellent lens and the combination is very compact, and I just don't worry about it. However, I too may eventually get an M-A, M4, M4P or a '62 M3. I just can't seem to make up my mind 🤔🙄. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benqui Posted April 5, 2021 Share #46 Posted April 5, 2021 Ha ha this is why I love the Leica forum: you start with a question M-A or M4 and you will end with a M2, M3, M4 and M-A!! 😀 4 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielaszalos Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share #47 Posted April 5, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I am so lucky to have this many experienced people contributing to my decision process! I feel lucky I think that my main difficulty in deciding (and this whole thread for that matter) lied in the uncertainty about the reliability of modern M cameras. It’s probably best I take my (hopefully lucky charm) replacement MP and give it some heavy usage for the next 12 months. If it’s flawless, I will pull the trigger on an M-A. If it breaks again within those 12 months, I will buy an M2 (or M4). I think that’s the wisest and sanest thing to do. A camera like the MP should not need a backup! Edited April 5, 2021 by gabrielaszalos Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmrider2 Posted April 5, 2021 Share #48 Posted April 5, 2021 But what about when you want to shoot both b&w and color simultaneously? Three film M bodies MAY be too many but one is NOT enough. And you have not said much about your preferred focal length. Up until a few years ago I was always able to limit my choice of lenses to one in each focal length, no longer. I own two lenses in 35 and three in 50 and would seriously think about the new APO's but there is also just too much gear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielaszalos Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share #49 Posted April 5, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said: But what about when you want to shoot both b&w and color simultaneously? Three film M bodies MAY be too many but one is NOT enough. And you have not said much about your preferred focal length. Up until a few years ago I was always able to limit my choice of lenses to one in each focal length, no longer. I own two lenses in 35 and three in 50 and would seriously think about the new APO's but there is also just too much gear. At the moment I shoot only B&W. I like consistency in style. My favorite focal is 50mm but I also use a 35. Edited April 5, 2021 by gabrielaszalos Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 5, 2021 Share #50 Posted April 5, 2021 Gabriel, your last decision as using your next (flawless I hope) MP for a while is the best thing to do. A flawless MP can break but it would be unlucky situation and in my experience every M (or other) can break in use. The two MP that I had (0.85/0.72, from second hand 😇) never let me down. They worked flawlessly for years, nothing to complain comparing to older Ms. That was before M-A period ( < 2014). I never need a backup MP which in turn was backup for some other gear 😉. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmrider2 Posted April 5, 2021 Share #51 Posted April 5, 2021 I have gone through a gear cycle three or four times since 1975 when I acquired my first Leica, a CL. I enjoy compact size of the Leica rangefinder but have always given into GAS acquiring two or three bodies and six or seven lenses so suddenly I get the urge to simplify my system so I will sell off bodies and lenses to get the system compact and light. Am finding myself thinking of doing it again as presently have three film Leicas, a digital MP240, and also some other cameras. Logic says not to sell anything because I will just buy into the system again at a higher price point. But it is hard to justify all the cameras I own. I guess I would rather own cameras than guns or watches or fountain pens. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym91 Posted April 13, 2021 Share #52 Posted April 13, 2021 The M4 is certainly a timeless jewel 😊🙏 flawless actually! enjoy andy Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/319561-to-old-time-users-m-a-or-m4/?do=findComment&comment=4180645'>More sharing options...
105012 Posted April 13, 2021 Share #53 Posted April 13, 2021 The original choice is between M-A and M4, I agree with these as there is no need for a built-in meter, one less thing to break (and worry about battery level). Also, reading light is a rather useful photographic skill! As a predominantly 50mm photographer for me the M3 is best (I tried 0.72 viewfinder first), and even though I have a goggle equipped Summaron 35mm, never use it, but I’m not trying to suggest M3 for you (you know best). I have 3 M3’s, which does give assurance that something will always be available, but on the other hand I have experienced no issues whatsoever in the last 4 years of owning them and using them daily. The M3 film loading is easy, secure, fast, a real pleasure. Maybe it will feel fiddly the first few times, but I don’t remember anymore if I felt that... And IXMOO’s work, which they won’t with an M-A (unless you swap out the base plate?), so that would be a plus for your M4 option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 13, 2021 Share #54 Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, 105012 said: ... And IXMOO’s work, which they won’t with an M-A (unless you swap out the base plate?), so that would be a plus for your M4 option. I can not put in my M-A or MP the nice IXMOO, the film chamber has "gained" an "element" which I don't know why it's there 🙃. So swapping base plate of M-A/MP from M4's would not work to use IXMOO. old short thread 😉 Edited April 13, 2021 by a.noctilux Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmrider2 Posted April 13, 2021 Share #55 Posted April 13, 2021 We talk about reliability of film cameras, especially between the MA/MP and older model film M bodies. I will say in 45 years of using film Leicas I have had to send two back for repair-a M2 which had a shutter problem and an M6TTL which had a tendency to eat batteries. Now that is a pretty good track record so I would not base a decision to purchase a new MA/MP vs an older model on reliability. Interesting, it was my M9 which was in the shop the longest for the sensor corrosion problem. I don't really see much of a problem with reliability concerning the MA/MP. I would probably go for an older camera just based on the price. I don't think you get two or three times the product value in a new camera vs a M2 or M4. But that is me and if you want a new film camera then the MA or MP is your only choice. Now, if one of those came with the M2 viewfinder I might be tempted. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted April 14, 2021 Share #56 Posted April 14, 2021 2 hours ago, a.noctilux said: I can not put in my M-A or MP the nice IXMOO, the film chamber has "gained" an "element" which I don't know why it's there 🙃. So swapping base plate of M-A/MP from M4's would not work to use IXMOO. old short thread 😉 Ah, I wondered about that, thank you. Yes, the IXMOO's are great, I have a fresh 100ft roll of Tri-X in the fridge to put into the bulk loader this weekend... I wonder why the M-A in particular does not have compatibility. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielaszalos Posted April 24, 2021 Author Share #57 Posted April 24, 2021 When buying one of these older cameras, is it absolutely necessary to have them CLA’d even if they are in good condition? How can you tell it’s time for CLA? Sorry if it’s a stupid question Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mute-on Posted April 24, 2021 Share #58 Posted April 24, 2021 No, subject to the comments in the following thread ... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218081-how-often-should-a-film-m-be-serviced/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 24, 2021 Share #59 Posted April 24, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, gabrielaszalos said: When buying one of these older cameras, is it absolutely necessary to have them CLA’d even if they are in good condition? How can you tell it’s time for CLA? Sorry if it’s a stupid question Following Mute-on's link, the most sensible answer is from Paulus, post #21 as answer to Philipus "CLA Culture" For me, I would answer this for CLA "as soon as possible when something goes wrong in using" ... Second note I've found that Dante Stella is spot on, this link to his article (mentioned in Philipus's post) Edited April 24, 2021 by a.noctilux 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted April 24, 2021 Share #60 Posted April 24, 2021 On 4/4/2021 at 6:16 AM, a.noctilux said: 😁 I still have three M4 needing repair... to expensive repairs, even not sellable ! Perhaps you salvage one functional M4 from the three? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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