Wedding photographer here, just fully switched from Canon to Leica!

[Aaron Daniel]

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Hey @hellobrandonscott, welcome to the club! I'm not a wedding photographer, but I am a wedding filmmaker, and I feel we would have the same joys (as well as qualms) with the SL2-S body haha. I've shot with the SL2 on a number of weddings last year, and I'd argue the files and workflow are the same with the latest SL2-S. Although I'm not coming from Canon (I was with Sony), I can confidently say that the biggest difference is the decrease in support.

I don't mean emotional or team support, this forum is great and has a wonderful community of eager helpers. What I mean by a decrease in support is lack of dedicated software or hardware for a Leica wedding workflow, specifically in regards to building any sort of rig, Again, maybe this isn't as apparent in photography, but my experience has been lacklustre in trying to find a video rig for my needs haha

Another thing to note is shoddy battery. Initially, I needed countless times to recharge, but what I found was that bringing a PD usb-c charger around all day will help loads. I don't need to think about changing the battery any more!

Likewise, a lack of a flippy or articulated screen was a big change. Although I shoot mostly with an external monitor for video anyway, I had to get used to a screen that doesn't move haha

Final note, the weight. I understand the RF Canon lineup was relatively light in the hand. The SL2-S is definitely not haha. I've yet to find a fix or aid in this regard. I definitely feel it in my wrists and shoulders the next day after having this hunk of machinery around me for over 10 hours 

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[hellobrandonscott]

So much great feedback! To my surprise, they arrived today, five days ahead of schedule! It's kind of torture though, since the 35 and lens adapter don't arrive until Thursday haha. 

You aren't wrong about the weight, but TBH, they aren't far off from the 5D4s they replaced, and I don't mind the weight. Feels better built because of it, ha. 

[hellobrandonscott]

8 hours ago, Photoworks said:

 

3. Same as #2, I've never used TTL. Always have adjusted flash manually. Hoping there's not much difference with the way the two 60s and the remote behave compared to the Canon system. They look way smaller, in a good way. 

that is good, TTL has a problem in backlight situation by not firing to tautly under by many stops. waiting for camera firmware fix.
I have used the SF-60 with external battery pack on events. It seams that sometime there is freezing and turning on or off fixes it. probably overheating.

 

12. OK, so I was wondering about back-button AF. You mentioned in #9 that it's possible using the joystick?

If you set the camera to M focusing mode you can use the joystick by center pushing it to backfocus.

I did a shoot of many headshots yesterday and Face detection worked very well. Most of the time I use point focus in AFs with good success .

 

the 85mm from sigma is a superb lens, I have it on my sony. On the Leica I use the 75mm summicron-Sl over the 90mm. It is more intimate shooting with subject  and it can focus much closer so that you can use it for details too.
 

Keep in mind that most sigma lenses native to L work well, the AF performance in not as tuned as Leica lenses.

this is an 75mm sample at f2
 

 

Hmmm... ya know, I didn't even think about the 75, but I've been missing a bit of 50mm in my lineup lately (ditched the 50 back in 2016) and maybe the 75 will be a nice synthesis between the 85's reach for utility purposes, and the 50's artfulness. I'll consider that for the next lens. Good thoughts. 

[Dennis]

35 + 85 is a killer combination for weddings. I used for eight/ten years 24 +35 +85 with two bodies and it worked just perfect. Now one camera only , and I'm happy with 35 + 58 ... These 23mm are my sweet spot. 

If I switch tomorrow to SL2-S system, I would buy three Sigma lenses: two contemporary (35/2 and 24/3.5) plus the 85/1.4 DN. I would start like this. And once I have enough budget, the 35 SL APO of course

 

[Tom1234]

4 hours ago, Aaron Daniel said:

Final note, the weight. I understand the RF Canon lineup was relatively light in the hand. The SL2-S is definitely not haha. I've yet to find a fix or aid in this regard. I definitely feel it in my wrists and shoulders the next day after having this hunk of machinery around me for over 10 hours 

Monopod?

[Tom1234]

44 minutes ago, Dennis said:

35 + 85 is a killer combination for weddings. I used for eight/ten years 24 +35 +85 with two bodies and it worked just perfect. Now one camera only , and I'm happy with 35 + 58 ... These 23mm are my sweet spot. 

If I switch tomorrow to SL2-S system, I would buy three Sigma lenses: two contemporary (35/2 and 24/3.5) plus the 85/1.4 DN. I would start like this. And once I have enough budget, the 35 SL APO of course

 

I was always disappointed in 50mm as a do all lens.   35/85 makes sense.  

How do you use each lens?  How many people usually end up in your photos?  35mm for multi-people groups and 75mm for singles and couples?

[RBB]

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13 hours ago, Slender said:

90mm... ok I stop.

 

 

 

 

 

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great shot, love the look

[Slender]

4 hours ago, RBB said:

great shot, love the look

Thanks. That lens and DOF at 90 is plenty good for most uses, and it renders well indeed. Cheers! I can only encourage the OP to at the very least give it a try... since it was the lauchning lens of the system it is also relatively easy to find second hand. 😍

[Dennis]

8 hours ago, Tom1234 said:

How do you use each lens?  How many people usually end up in your photos?  35mm for multi-people groups and 75mm for singles and couples?

I don't arrange group shots, formal, or family photos for weddings: my approach is 100% unscripted. My lens's use is according to context and how much information I want in each picture. As a statistic, maybe it's about 83% 35mm and 17% 58mm ... It feels like the 35mm is for telling the story of what is happening around (3d). The 58mm is for a detail of what is happening inside the scene (2d). Does it make sense? But I could easily use only 35mm; it's my lens. Shooting weddings with M is so fun, but I'm not ready enough to switch the system. I need more gear, spare batteries, more lenses. Step by step, time will tell.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 3/14/2021 at 5:04 AM, hellobrandonscott said:

Amazing. Follow-ups...

2. Thankfully, I've always been a single-point AF, back-button shooter, so pretty used to this anyway. Thanks for the heads up.

3. Same as #2, I've never used TTL. Always have adjusted flash manually. Hoping there's not much difference with the way the two 60s and the remote behave compared to the Canon system. They look way smaller, in a good way. 

5. My default set up is always a 35mm on the right-hand cam and an 85 on the left. I was sort of bummed to see Leica doesn't make an 85 for the SL, so was thinking about giving the 90 a shot instead. Compared to that being an option, would you still recommend the Sigma 85? 

9. I often shoot elopements in the woods, so moving into mirrorless this year was a must-do for shutter sound alone. Often, it's only me, the couple and the officiant, so having even the "silent" shutter mode on the 5D4 sounds soooo obnoxious to me. This will be a super welcome improvement.

10. What is all this you just said in new-to-Leica words? haha. Sounds important.

11. Amazing, I was wondering if this was possible. I always carry around a little satchel, so I'll just keep a little power thing in there always. 

12. OK, so I was wondering about back-button AF. You mentioned in #9 that it's possible using the joystick?

3. Using manual flash on the SF60 is a doodle. Set to M and turn the dial. The remote is also very easy to configure and use.

5. I have shot all my weddings with the 90 Summicron. I also have the 85 but with COVID and all that.... Objectively the 90 or 75 are better lenses. But, I like an 85mm 1.4 wide open and the Leicas just can't do that. I am NOT getting rid of my 90 but you said you were looking for alternatives and this is the best alternative there is, currently. The 85 is like any modern Canon or Sony prime. Maybe wait until you get the 35 and try that out? The 35 is simply spectacular. As good as it gets. If you can be happy at F2 get the Leicas.

10. You're used to PDAF focusing. Leicas use Panasonics DFD focus system based on a contrast detect rather than phase detect. In AFS all you need to do is focus on an edge and you'll get similar performance (better as you'll be able to AF way into the corners) but in AFC there's lots of differences. The camera will come set to iAF, which is somewhere in the middle of AFS and AFC and you'll think the viewfinder image is slightly *fuzzy*. That's the AFC system working. Set the camera to AFS and that will go away. It's not that Leica's AFC won't work at a wedding. It will mostly. But you don't need it, really and you'll get the best from that glorious viewfinder in AFS. You'll also read a lot about how Leicas AF is crap on these forums. It isn't. It's fabulous. BUT... The implementation of tracking AF is well behind what the R5 and modern Sony's achieve. If you shoot sports for a living you made the wrong choice. But for weddings you've made a perfect choice.

12. If you switch to manual focus you can still have AF by pressing the joystick button. It works great. Just be aware that if you mix brands (Sigma lenses etc) you might get slightly different behaviour. For example, you set a Leica lens to MF in the menus but on the lens with Panasonic/Sigma. Same for IS. You'll get used to it.

A mention has been made as to the reason for the switch and whether it was the best commercial decision. Firstly, the SL2 cameras are ideally suited to the wedding photographer. Their build quality and weather sealing is the best in the business. They're super customisable. They're quiet and the sensor in the SL2S is a low light monster. AFS works down to EV-6. The IBIS is best in class. The things that are missing aren't a huge issue. Top end tracking AF. A vast lens selection including super teles. High power studio style TTL set ups. The only thing I wish it had was a flippy screen but at a pinch I use the Fotos app and my phone for that.

I made the switch from Canon about 10 years ago. But I switched to M's. Then to SLs. Best decision I ever made. Yes, a Sony is more functional. But damn they're uninspiring to use. After 20 years shooting I wanted to enjoy the gear I picked up every day. I wanted a reason to go out an shoot. These are the tools of our trade. There's always someone who'll tell you it's a bad investment to work with Leica (especially some Leica shooters) but if anything, it's more important for a working photographer to work with gear that makes us happy and suits our workflow. The Sony's, as good as they are have their own issues that, for me, are deal breakers.

One valid point was raised though. You're on your own. Leica's service times are woeful. Like months. You need to be self sufficient in case of emergency. If something does happen to your SL2S you may be at the shop buying a Panasonic S5 (excellent camera BTW) to see you through. Leica's biggest downfall is this.

Gordon

[Dennis]

40 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Firstly, the SL2 cameras are ideally suited to the wedding photographer. Their build quality and weather sealing is the best in the business. They're super customisable. They're quiet and the sensor in the SL2S is a low light monster. AFS works down to EV-6. The IBIS is best in class. 

Their build quality and weather sealing is the best in the business. They're super customisable. They're quiet and the sensor in the SL2S is a low light monster. AFS works down to EV-6. The IBIS is best in class. 

👏👏👏 

43 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I made the switch from Canon about 10 years ago. But I switched to M's. Then to SLs.

Tell me more about it, I'm curious. Canon DSLR such as 5D? Then you used for a while Leica M for work, then SL? Interesting. Why not stay with M? Let me see: EVF life changer? 🤔

44 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Yes, a Sony is more functional. But damn they are uninspiring to use. After 20 years shooting I wanted to enjoy the gear I picked up every day. I wanted a reason to go out an shoot.

Super agree. My Nikon D5 is for my work only. Because when I want to fully enjoy the process and experience, I use M, w/o a doubt. That's why, after more than 20 years of shooting (me too), I would love to enjoy my camera rather than just use it as a tool.

49 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

There's always someone who'll tell you it's a bad investment to work with Leica.

One valid point was raised though. You're on your own. Leica's service times are woeful. Like months. You need to be self sufficient in case of emergency. If something does happen to your SL2S you may be at the shop buying a Panasonic S5 (excellent camera BTW) to see you through. Leica's biggest downfall is this.

That! In Mexico, Leica doesn't exist. If something happens, I have to ship it abroad, which is no suitable for customs, taxes, etc. Mexico customs are terrible, and I always want to earn a few extra bucks. And after that, as you say, I have to wait months? I think this could be one reason to not switch to the Leica SL system here in Mexico.
But I also know that it happened nothing to my gear in more than 20 years of shooting. It's a bet.

[Tom1234]

9 hours ago, Dennis said:

I don't arrange group shots, formal, or family photos for weddings: my approach is 100% unscripted. My lens's use is according to context and how much information I want in each picture. As a statistic, maybe it's about 83% 35mm and 17% 58mm ... It feels like the 35mm is for telling the story of what is happening around (3d). The 58mm is for a detail of what is happening inside the scene (2d). Does it make sense? But I could easily use only 35mm; it's my lens. Shooting weddings with M is so fun, but I'm not ready enough to switch the system. I need more gear, spare batteries, more lenses. Step by step, time will tell.

Yes it makes sense.  Many thanks for he perspective.

Outside the action with some surrounding context - 35mm.  

Inside the action isolating the subject for emphasis - 58mm.  

[oudjunk]

On 3/14/2021 at 2:22 AM, Slender said:

@35mm

 

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This is from "Vario Elmarit 24-90 2.8-4 Asph. " ? I like bokeh and sharpness. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 hours ago, Dennis said:

 

Tell me more about it, I'm curious. Canon DSLR such as 5D? Then you used for a while Leica M for work, then SL? Interesting. Why not stay with M? Let me see: EVF life changer? 🤔

 

Actually I went from Canon (5D2) to M9's to SL's. I got out of Canon after 15 years because I was so disappointed with the simply awful 50mm 1.2L. A 2K lens that has focus shift?I was shooting with mostly mid FL primes and 80% on a 50mm so I decided to have a go with the *best* 50 there was. A 50mm Summilux. And it was fantastic for me. Hundreds of weddings and countless corporate shoots. The only downside was I didn't particularly like the M9 skin tones. I could get there but it was more work than I liked. (I wasn't ever a fan of the Kodachrome pallette) I also had a real use for the Canon T/S lenses but didn't want to get back into Canon again. So I had a go with the SL to see if I was OK with AF again. However the SL's on release had some MAJOR firmware issues, especially around flash. One of my M9's was away on a six month trip for a sensor replacement. In the next 8 months I shot with Olympus Fuji and Sony. All good and all capable. The SL firmware was *mostly* fixed so I shot with a mix of those and an M240 for a couple of years. Eventually I left the M's at home because I wanted something longer than the M offered and I didn't want to carry multiple systems. Occasionally I would still shoot a wedding with an M, just for the fun of it. I REALLY liked the original SL body and layout. As much as the M's so I was OK with the system size and weight. I took a bit of a break from the M system for a bit. I'm lucky. I've worked hard and I can afford to have more than one system laying around.

I'm shooting my first wedding in a year in four weeks. I'm shooting it with a pair of M10's. Not because I have issues with the SL2 (It's excellent. Brilliant, in fact). More that it's 13 days after I have sinus surgery and I can't be dealing with anything that requires physical exertion so I'm travelling as light as possible. 2 bodies, 4 lenses and a SF60. Or maybe  I'll take my new GFX100S and the 80mm I picked up this morning.......

Gordon

[Tom1234]

4 hours ago, oudjunk said:

 

This is from "Vario Elmarit 24-90 2.8-4 Asph. " ? I like bokeh and sharpness. 

Obviously a great lens.  Bokeh is fine for "color bokeh".  In Black & White it might be possible to have better bokeh with a less sharp lens that has more aberrations.  

I am not hacking Leica or any other lens maker.  I am concerned about the super sharp aesthetic. My concerns nowadays with the refinement and "improvement" of lens technologies are below.

You see the details of hair (gross) and skin (gross). You feel like you can tell these people sweat.  So, there is a loss of artistic perspective and you are forced into an overly detailed reality.  Due to past technologies lens inabilities, i.e. less sharpness, there was an established artistic beauty with pictures of human beings.  With today's better lenses that beauty is gone and we have a detailed reality with all its sweating, gross detail to gawk at.  Will someone call the makeup artist please. 

Walt Disney found when making cartoons about animals… specifically Jiminy Cricket, that too much detail made the cricket gross to look at so they dropped off all gross stomach churning details like leg hairs.  Dropping gross details used to happen automatically with pictures of humans because the lens could not create that detail.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiminy_Cricket

The media industry has within it, people that just love to look at things and follow trends, frequently without paying any attention to where those trends are taking them.  Having an excessive amount of detail is as problematic as having an excessive amount of anything else.

 I am not trying to offend anyone… just doing what is done on Forums… bringing out the issues of the day… IMHO. 

[Slender]

@oudjunk Well yes, that is 24/90.

As for the comments above @Tom1234I am a bit puzzled (again) to see technical appreciations as minute as these based on a 1.1mb picture litteraly squeezed from a 90mb DNG file on the internet, on god know what kind of screen you may look at it.

Obviously the subject is a field worker for a photo-reportage so it's not a glamour shot by any means, nor is it a screen grab from a film (even less so a 1940ies animation film). You can always drop a 1/8pro-mist or blackmagic or pearlescent or soft if you want more flatering skin when using sharp lenses. That's why cinematographers which a fuckton of ACs and budget can be picky, or ask panavision for custom lenses.... and also why the Summiluxes C lenses have a net at the rear to make them less "perfect" on the spot if desired. Heck there is even no retouching you can brush these off so easily even in post...

Clearly I am also not for excess of sharpness, and in that regard this lense strikes a nice balance compared to the APO primes, lenses who are soooo sharp they have diffraction showing up at f2.8/f4.... and the M lenses... you should try if you havent. But please, come around and look at proper prints to judge this. 🤠

[Tom1234]

I have no complaint about your picture which is excellent so much so if I needed a DP I would seriously consider hiring you.

I am just into the old lenses… that simple.  Your new lens is stunning it its own right. 

No offenses intended… though I do tend to go on and on, on this issue. 

[Slender]

31 minutes ago, Tom1234 said:

No offenses intended… though I do tend to go on and on, on this issue. 

No issues mate, sorry I got perhaps a bit excited too. I like vintage and character, too! My biggest mistake ever was to sell the R glass my dad gave me... So yeah I can relate.

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Hallo,

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[BernardC]

20 hours ago, Dennis said:

Tell me more about it, I'm curious. Canon DSLR such as 5D? Then you used for a while Leica M for work, then SL? Interesting. Why not stay with M? Let me see: EVF life changer?

Not Dennis, but I made the same journey from 5D to SL. I didn't like the fact that Canon got rid of interchangeable screens. Tried an SL and never regretted it. The camera has been 100% reliable, and much easier to focus than the Canons. I never use AF, so my case is different from yours. However, you may find that you can see your shots better with the SL. The only downside is that EVFs (any EVF from any brand) has a slight delay. You will get a few more blink shots.

 

[Dennis]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

The only downside is that EVFs (any EVF from any brand) has a slight delay. You will get a few more blink shots.

I think global shutter and zero blackout is the way to go in the future, right? It could make a huge difference.