Rick Posted March 12, 2021 Share #161 Posted March 12, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, mmradman said: Not sure why is suddenly Summilux 28 brought into this thread... Because, it is all about chickens! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 Hi Rick, Take a look here Review: The New Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm F2 ASPH.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mmradman Posted March 12, 2021 Share #162 Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Rick said: Because, it is all about chickens! Fair enough. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 9 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318553-review-the-new-leica-apo-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph/?do=findComment&comment=4159312'>More sharing options...
mmradman Posted March 13, 2021 Share #163 Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Steven said: Nice chicken. Not an APO 35 M, I bet... Right ? Correct, not 35 or 28, it was fast 85mm. Does it matter, we are drifting into the poultry territory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 13, 2021 Share #164 Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) Will Jono and Clint become the William Wegman and Man Ray of the Leica world? Future taste-makers and critics want to know! Edited March 13, 2021 by scott kirkpatrick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 13, 2021 Share #165 Posted March 13, 2021 Hmmm - I suspect "$8000 lens" > "chickens" must win some kind of award for thread drift........ 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted March 13, 2021 Share #166 Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, adan said: Hmmm - I suspect "$8000 lens" > "chickens" must win some kind of award for thread drift........ The other thread about this lens is mostly about dog poop. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted March 13, 2021 Share #167 Posted March 13, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 9 hours ago, mmradman said: Fair enough. He looks quite angry, probably because he feels ridiculed now., which indeed is a bit unfair. Beautiful feathers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELAN Posted March 13, 2021 Share #168 Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, adan said: Hmmm - I suspect "$8000 lens" > "chickens" must win some kind of award for thread drift........ Not quite, turns out it's the chicken photos that sell those $8,000 lenses... I bought the 28 lux because of that chicken photo, and now, seeing Jono's 35 APO chickens I am tempted again... Edited March 13, 2021 by ELAN 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELAN Posted March 13, 2021 Share #169 Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) double post Edited March 13, 2021 by ELAN Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 13, 2021 Share #170 Posted March 13, 2021 3 hours ago, ELAN said: turns out it's the chicken photos that sell those $8,000 lenses... That is the scariest thing I've heard in 50 years of photography. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted March 13, 2021 Share #171 Posted March 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, adan said: That is the scariest thing I've heard in 50 years of photography. It would be kinda fun if leica stores had pet chickens running around that you could test the gear out on while in store. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share #172 Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, adan said: Hmmm - I suspect "$8000 lens" > "chickens" must win some kind of award for thread drift........ 5 hours ago, ELAN said: Not quite, turns out it's the chicken photos that sell those $8,000 lenses... I bought the 28 lux because of that chicken photo, and now, seeing Jono's 35 APO chickens I am tempted again... Hi Andy, Elan As Elan says, not really a drift, and especially as there are now chicken pictures relating to the 35 APO . . . . On the other hand the drift to dog pooh on the other thread does seem a stretch! 1 hour ago, adan said: That is the scariest thing I've heard in 50 years of photography. It was to do with showing the bokeh of the 28 ‘Lux Asph wide open and close up I think . . . Even Leica were impressed Here’s one with the 28 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And here’s one with the 35 APO Edited March 13, 2021 by jonoslack 11 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And here’s one with the 35 APO ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318553-review-the-new-leica-apo-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph/?do=findComment&comment=4159713'>More sharing options...
ELAN Posted March 13, 2021 Share #173 Posted March 13, 2021 26 minutes ago, jonoslack said: It was to do with showing the bokeh of the 28 ‘Lux Asph wide open and close up I think . . . Even Leica were impressed Exactly. Thanks for clearing that up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 13, 2021 Share #174 Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, jonoslack said: On the other hand the drift to dog pooh on the other thread does seem a stretch! Must have been because the thread's about an APOO lens. Pete. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted March 13, 2021 Share #175 Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 7:18 AM, jonoslack said: Okay - let's forget about Lloyd, because he is what he is, but let's address this "why pay $3700 for a 255g Leica 35/2 when you can pay $1150 for a 240g ZEISS 35/2 with superior optics?" For forgetting about Lloyd, this whole reply sure is focusing a lot on Lloyd 😂 The paraphrasing quote you're giving there strips it of its leading context and thus I think the entire intended point: "..His context is one of future-ready, meticulous execution of landscape shots with edge-to-edge excellence. So when he dogs the 35 Cron it is 1) in that context and 2) relative to its peers. e.g. "If you care about the same stuff I do.." That paraphrased comparison does not exist in a vacuum, it's extremely context-dependent. Quote I haven't really used either of these lenses, but there are various possible answers: First of all Leica R10's answer above Which basically means "I like using it and I get good pictures" the two sides may or may not be linked. This, too, is very specifically and exactly covered in the post to which you're responding: "If someone said they want the 35 Cron just because they like the brand, or the way it draws, or enjoy its flaws, etc. I don't expect he'd have any grievance." I feel the same way described, and also have no grievance over what people like or why. Quote How do you define 'superior optics' . . . well, it would appear to be because it has good MTF and sharpness in a controlled test setup. It's going to be defined by the author, for the author's stated or implied context. Given optics rather than preferences, it should be objectively demonstrated and repeatable. Quote But it really doesn't (at all) reflect LeicaR10's remarks about it being 'all about the photograph'. But worse than that - Lloyd as you said is complimentary about the 18/20/24 SEM lenses and most people would subscribe to that, but when I had the 24, I tested considerably at 20 metres and found it to be very soft at the corners - Leica confirmed it was 'within spec' Most testers wouldn't test a lens at that distance (too complicated to organise properly and repeatably). The 24 SEM was originally reviewed by him 11 years ago, and relative to the available options of that day. One quote of note from it: "Finally, it also shows that MTF by itself is almost silly: the results depend far more on the particular image than on absolute MTF. MTF is a good starting point for understanding performance characteristics, but real images teach a lot more." For one of many notes about the edges, "The outer edge area is visibly less crisp than the right side of the crop, showing that the 24/3.8 does decline to the edges" with the context that the lens still blew away most DSLR lenses of the day. He has retested it more times over the years. From a retest earlier this year on the M10-M: "Wide open at f/3.8, outer zones are somewhat blurry; the lens cannot make a sharp image outside the central 2/3 or so of the frame. A good deal of the dropoff in performance is probably the direct result of ray angle degradation and not optical per se—even though Leica M lenses are at their best on M cameras, they still suffer from digital sensor application and this is true going way back to the M9—the 40MP sensor just make it more obvious. Stopping down to f/5.6 greatly improves performance to the edges, but corner areas even in the distance are still less than optimal." More edge criticism on a more demanding camera, but given in fairness to sensor issues. And it was I'll leave it to you to decide to pay to see it all, but if it is the point to imply that the edges were missed - they certainly weren't, and it was tested on a wide amount of subject and focus distances. Quote Me? Well, you might be surprised to hear that I really do a lot of testing - and much of it as near to infinity as possible (where the rear element is closest to the sensor and most edge troubles will occur). But I don't publish it much because I think it's very difficult to read properly (and rather boring as well). I use it to inform my opinion about something . . . but what I'm really interested in is how the image actually looks - and that's a function of lots of things you can't really measure I am not the least bit surprised. And they're your articles, so you certainly can and should do with them as you please. As I said, I enjoy them too! Quote What I try to do in my articles, rather than a severe technical approach is to give a proper feel for how a lens will look (draw if you like) and I do that by shooting at different apertures and different distances - then, hopefully the reader can draw their own conclusions. That is how I take Lloyd's reviews too. They are images, images, images. More images, then some more images. Mostly beautiful landscapes displayed in full with later zoom analysis at all usable apertures, which the reader may read or not, and heed or not, according to their interests. This is not "severe" to me, but I'm reminded of it happening in pretty much all subject matters that anyone who cares more about a given thing is judged as obsessed, and that anyone who cares less is judged as undiscriminating. Quote There isn't a right way of doing this, but back to the Leica35/2 vs the Zeiss 35/2 - I don't doubt Lloyds results, but I question whether they have much relevance to which lens you actually decide to get. They have tremendous relevance for me, because I would rather "outsource" excellence to those who clearly know and care about it much more than I do. I do know that I want my images to be unsurprising representations of the reality I saw through my viewfinder, and to survive the inevitable progress of monitor sizes and resolution where I do most of my viewing. This is how I make most product decisions: find someone who knows and cares more but in the same direction as me, and heavily consider their advice. And where we disagree (e.g. Lloyd's hatred of rangefinders because of their imprecision compared to EVFs), I just ignore it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share #176 Posted March 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, astrostl said: They have tremendous relevance for me, because I would rather "outsource" excellence to those who clearly know and care about it much more than I do. I do know that I want my images to be unsurprising representations of the reality I saw through my viewfinder, and to survive the inevitable progress of monitor sizes and resolution where I do most of my viewing. This is how I make most product decisions: find someone who knows and cares more but in the same direction as me, and heavily consider their advice. And where we disagree (e.g. Lloyd's hatred of rangefinders because of their imprecision compared to EVFs), I just ignore it. Hi There Well, I stand corrected - I haven't subscribed, largely because I've been put off by the teasers - you've eloquently plead his case and I've never doubted his technical abilities (and I was aware of his landscape abilities). All the best Jono Slack 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share #177 Posted March 13, 2021 52 minutes ago, Steven said: Every time I see them I'm amazed. Jono, which 35mm lens would you think is a better match with the 28 Lux: the APO or the FLE? As in match, I mean the one capable to produce the most similar image wide open (not the one that would be the most complementary, as that might relate for the subjective realm). What an interesting question Steven. It might be logical to think it was the FLE, but I guess I've voted with my wallet and chosen the 35 APO - but I think either would be fine - the 28 'lux is a modern lens, and it's look is perhaps somewhere between the two 35s 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahesh Posted March 13, 2021 Share #178 Posted March 13, 2021 11 hours ago, ELAN said: Not quite, turns out it's the chicken photos that sell those $8,000 lenses... I bought the 28 lux because of that chicken photo, and now, seeing Jono's 35 APO chickens I am tempted again... Perhaps cheaper to keep a few 🐔 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share #179 Posted March 13, 2021 42 minutes ago, Mahesh said: Perhaps cheaper to keep a few 🐔 Certainly would be . . . . But you still nee to have something to take pictures of them with! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanno Posted March 13, 2021 Share #180 Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, jonoslack said: Hi Andy, Elan As Elan says, not really a drift, and especially as there are now chicken pictures relating to the 35 APO . . . . On the other hand the drift to dog pooh on the other thread does seem a stretch! It was to do with showing the bokeh of the 28 ‘Lux Asph wide open and close up I think . . . Even Leica were impressed Here’s one with the 28 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And here’s one with the 35 APO What a beautiful shot and testimony of how special the 28mm lux asph is. I take this opportunity to thank you Jono for your reviews and pictures over the years. Not just the sheer quality of your pictures and writing, and in particular how you render light (I imagine decades of shooting with film behind it), but also and quite importantly for how inspiring you have been. It feels to me that you thrive to share your passion and enthusiasm with objectivity and integrity. I find personally that the humility in your approach gives so much stature, calibre and credibility to your findings and reviews. I spent some amount of money after reading over and over your reviews and looking at your pictures over the years, simply because you portrayed an idea of the best a camera or lens could do. It pushes me to improve and do better. Actually, whenever I see your pictures, I feel the compulsive urge to leave home right away and shoot ! 😂 I imagine you as someone who focuses on the good you can see in someone. And it feels to me that is what you are doing with your reviews, whether lenses, cameras and bags (oh these Fogg, perfection on a strap, up to the little French flag on the side). Many thanks again for sharing your work, and please keep shooting with Leica gear! 🙏☺️ Edited March 13, 2021 by Hanno 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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