Lens crisis

[earleygallery]

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8 hours ago, Drmat said:

I am not a professional photographer, just an enthusiastic hobbyist who loves to take photos.

 

No need to tell us this. If you were a working photographer you wouldn't need to ask the question, you would just choose the right tool for the job. As an amateur you don't have any such needs so can indulge yourself in all kinds of thoughts of what if and if only....... you are imagining the photos you think you could make if only you had a different lens.

Go out and make photos with what you have. If you simply can't get the results you need then you need to go back to the drawing board.

If you just fancy splashing some cash on another lens then just do it, don't feel the need to justify your reasons based on some imaginary photographic obstacles!

Edited February 14, 2021 by earleygallery

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[a.noctilux]

Drmat,

As James wrote, just do it.

 

As I don't need to earn my living selling my photos,

I don't have to justify my lenses's purchases neither,

I think that I'm lucky enough to use and/or ...sell/buy them without putting my family (or myself) in misery...

 

[Drmat]

@earleygallery - yes, the advantage of being an amateur. It is a privilege that one can do this for joy.

[Guest]

First we have the "covid" crisis and now this!!

What next in the depressing modern world? 

Maybe a red lipstick shortage? 

It never rains, it pours.

[Drmat]

@steve 1959 - let’s face it, if there were no Covid crisis I would be out making photos instead of pixel peeping and lamenting gear purchases!

[shirubadanieru]

The curse of Leica is that there are way too many options that tempt us to try them out...when you think you’ve gone deep, you can always go deeper...lol anyway, I, also like you, just wanna focus on taking photos instead of spending time choosing gear or getting my brain filled with these kind of indecisions (easier said than done but..). 

I think I’ve tried every 50mm made by Leica (minus the 0.95 nocti), and after trading a few here and there, I think in the end it really depends what you’ll use them for; based on that (and the kind of rendering you prefer) you can pick your favorite (s). 

Noctilux: Portraiture is amazing, so either the f1 or the f1.2 remake should be amazing for this. If this is the main thing you use your camera for, it makes sense. 

Summilux: Similar-ish to Noctilux, but provides a better trade-off of size / versatility. Summiluxes look great for portraits and are also small and light enough to be a daily carry-on lens. 

Summicron: If you shoot street / travel / landscapes mainly and portraits once in a while you can’t beat a summicron. Light, small, perfect focus throw. F2 is good enough for film too unless you always shoot indoors or at night. That being said, I don’t like the bokeh from the latest Summicron or APO summicron (too sharp / boring), so I’d go for earlier versions to have a beautiful portrait lens wide-open at f2, and a really sharp rendering from f4 onwards. 

The same principle can be applied even further to the Elmar / Summarits, which are even smaller than the summicron but obviously loose a bit of the versatility due to smaller apertures. 

In the end by the way, I chose to keep the Summicron rigid, as it provides classical rendering wide open that I love for portraits, and it’s also super easy to use as an everyday lens. That being said I’ll be adding the noctilux remake that I can’t resist trying ahah so I’m struggling a bit how I’ll juggle between these two...given the Noctilux price it’d be silly to buy it and not use it frequently so I’m considering having it as my main 50mm and use the rigid for when I’m traveling. 

[Aryel]

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"No place is boring, if you've had a good night's sleep and have a pocket full of unexposed film." Robert Adams

You may not need the unexposed film but there is lot of truth here. 

I am also a 50mm shooter, fully agree on the post about the rigid from @shirubadanieru. However, it looks that you may need some inspiration. What about getting some photobooks? Or a printer (if you do not have one)? This being said, another 50 can never hurt 🙈.

 

[shirubadanieru]

36 minutes ago, Aryel said:

"No place is boring, if you've had a good night's sleep and have a pocket full of unexposed film." Robert Adams

You may not need the unexposed film but there is lot of truth here. 

I am also a 50mm shooter, fully agree on the post about the rigid from @shirubadanieru. However, it looks that you may need some inspiration. What about getting some photobooks? Or a printer (if you do not have one)? This being said, another 50 can never hurt 🙈.

 

yeah I just have one 50 and one 35 now those are my two lens for my two bodies, which is perfect but given the unique remake of the noctilux I wanna try it instead of skipping it and then paying extra in the used market if I change my mind  

[evikne]

I strive hard to keep the number of lenses down. After a cleanup (mostly due to tight finances), I think I have reached an absolute minimum now, with one modern and one classic 50mm, and one modern and a classic 35mm. All Summiluxes.

[colonel]

18 hours ago, Drmat said:

I know this is one you have all dealt with, but I am hoping for some insight and wisdom of the group.

My current lens lineup includes the 50APO, 50 Elmar-M, 50 Noctilux F1, 35 summicron (8 element), and 28 summaron (re-issue).  I use the M10M and M10P

I love the detail of the APO, but I am not sure I need so much detail and feel that maybe a lux 50 is good enough.  I love the character of the Noctilux, but I hate that I never have any detail.  I also hate that it breaks my wrist walking around.

The rational thought is sell the 50s, bank the cash, and settle on a 50 lux.  I used to own one but sold it when I got into wider lenses, only to later find myself back on 50s (that is where i do my best work).

Would love to hear about the experience of others.  Who votes for keeping the noct/APO, selling one or both, replacing with lux, etc? 

If I could be so bold, for me, the 50 Elmar-M and 50 Noctilux F1 are special purpose lenses and not general walk about for various reasons

The closest walk about is the 50APO. this is a great lens and not sure why you dont love it. The Summilux 1.4 is a great walk about lens and has an extra stop of light and DOF which for me is more useful as a walkabout. Its also very sharp but still manages to have character, especially wide open.

So the APO vs 1.4 is really absolute sharpness vs extra range. Only you can make this decision.

Do you just feel like a change ? or want more light gathering but are not happy with the f1 for various reasons ?

If you were me (which you aren't) I would sell the f1 and elmar-M and buy the summilux

Keep the APO, and compare these two when you have the summilux, and decide which one you want to keep.

To obtain the character of the Noctilux without the bulk, you should also think about another character lens in the future, possibly the new Noctilux f1.2 or one of the many third party examples, such as Zeiss 1.5 or Voigtlander 1.2

tell us what you do!

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by colonel

[Aryel]

2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

yeah I just have one 50 and one 35 now those are my two lens for my two bodies, which is perfect but given the unique remake of the noctilux I wanna try it instead of skipping it and then paying extra in the used market if I change my mind  

I am still trying different ones, especially the 50s. Waiting for an elmar f3.5 redscale now. Switching to 100% black and white in darkroom has kind of changed my taste. Used to love the v4 summicrons (both 35 and 50). No I am back to the rigid 50 and looking for opportunities to try more ltm lenses.

Looking forwards to hearing what you think about the 'new' noctilux. 

 

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, Aryel said:

I am still trying different ones, especially the 50s. Waiting for an elmar f3.5 redscale now. Switching to 100% black and white in darkroom has kind of changed my taste. Used to love the v4 summicrons (both 35 and 50). No I am back to the rigid 50 and looking for opportunities to try more ltm lenses.

Looking forwards to hearing what you think about the 'new' noctilux. 

 

I love the Elmar f3.5 Red Dial! Crazy how good it is wide open for such an old design. It’s actually my favorite lens after the Rigid Summicron, but the problem is that it’s not great in terms of handling (changing aperture is a pain..). Anyway, lovely lens, and super light. I also love the Elmar f2.8 (original one), but again handling is not great as the aperture rotates with the lens and it’s hard to change it too. When shooting street or in more fast paced situations these things matter, but if portraits or landscapes then no issue at all. 

Other 50mm lenses I loved was the Summicron Collapsible (although a bit too soft wide open), and the Summilux pre-asph V1 (soft wide open, but no distortion like the V2 and love the beautiful chrome lens design). Not a 50mm, but probably my favorite non-Leica lens was the Rollei Sonnar 40mm f2.8 just in case you are interested in checking it out. 

[Keith (M)]

51 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Other 50mm lenses I loved was the Summicron Collapsible (although a bit too soft wide open)

My 1955 5cm Summicron Collapsible LTM has no problems coping with the M10M's 41Mp.  It is a low contrast lens but post processing in LR Classic deals with that.  A delight to use.

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[T25UFO]

13 hours ago, Drmat said:

Here are a couple with the F1 noctilux on the M10M.  This is why I have trouble parting with the lens...

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Definitely prefer the Noctilux over the APO. 

[Aryel]

14 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Other 50mm lenses I loved was the Summicron Collapsible (although a bit too soft wide open), and the Summilux pre-asph V1 (soft wide open, but no distortion like the V2 and love the beautiful chrome lens design). Not a 50mm, but probably my favorite non-Leica lens was the Rollei Sonnar 40mm f2.8 just in case you are interested in checking it out. 

I love the rollei sonnar. I use mine on a minolta cle and the results are great. I am definitely interested to try the 50 lux v1 and v2 at some point.

So many lenses to try 😃

Thanks a lot.

[Drmat]

@Aryel the photo books and printer are what I would fund if selling the lens.  You read my mind.  I was also considering some workshops.  I completely agree... these discussions are what happen when you hit a rut.

[a.noctilux]

2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I love the Elmar f3.5 Red Dial! Crazy how good it is wide open for such an old design. It’s actually my favorite lens after the Rigid Summicron, but the problem is that it’s not great in terms of handling (changing aperture is a pain..). Anyway, lovely lens, and super light. I also love the Elmar f2.8 (original one), but again handling is not great as the aperture rotates with the lens and it’s hard to change it too. When shooting street or in more fast paced situations these things matter, but if portraits or landscapes then no issue at all. 

Other 50mm lenses I loved was the Summicron Collapsible (although a bit too soft wide open), and the Summilux pre-asph V1 (soft wide open, but no distortion like the V2 and love the beautiful chrome lens design). Not a 50mm, but probably my favorite non-Leica lens was the Rollei Sonnar 40mm f2.8 just in case you are interested in checking it out. 

Positive thinking for "flaws" on older lenses 😇.

Elmar redscale ?

Red Dial is for Leica IIIf

...

On Elmar 50 or other LTM lenses with aperture settings "flaws",

I just take the habit NOT to set the aperture as more modern lenses.

I have learned habit to think those as two apertures lenses set for the whole day as ( for example f/3.5 OR f/6.3/8 ) so I do know what F setting it was for peace of mind without even looking, ...

specially when a colored filter fixed on the lens hiding the numbers.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by a.noctilux

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Positive thinking for "flaws" on older lenses 😇.

Elmar redscale ?

Red Dial is for Leica IIIf

...

On Elmar 50 or other LTM lenses with aperture settings "flaws",

I just take the habit NOT to set the aperture as more modern lenses.

I have learned habit to think those as two apertures lenses set for the whole day as ( for example f/3.5 OR f/6.3/8 ) so I do know what F setting it was for peace of mind without even looking, ...

specially when a colored filter fixed on the lens hiding the numbers.

 

 

yeah..exactly! when i use it on film i just leave it at f8 & change the shutter speed instead & if i use it on the M9M i leave it at either f3.5 or f8 & let the camera do the rest. 

still it's much easier to use a lens you can control the aperture to your liking, but I do love the rendering & small size of the elmar, never disappoints me and most times I always get positively surprised with the output!

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[Drmat]

I like the Elmar-M.  However, i find that the detail at distance is kind of non-existent until you stop down to f8 on my M10M.  It is as if it cannot focus properly at infinity at wide apertures.  Maybe it is that I am used to the APO on the monochrom and have unrealistic expectations  I did find the performance surprising because I have vintage lenses that do a much better job.  It does a great job at more modest focus distances, even wide open.  I purchased the lens recently from a US Leica store, so i trust it is in proper working order.  I had hoped this would be a nice walk around lens and it does produce excellent images for most photography, but it is just not up to my personal standards in what I was hoping to get out of the lens.  This one is up for sale.

As for the other two 50s.  I think I will sit on them a bit longer, or at least until i get a chance to use them for some proper photo making.  They are very different tools and appeal to different aesthetic needs.  I think if i were forced to keep one it would be the APO as it is just a better all around lens.  I think my real struggle is that I can potentially replace both the APO and Noct for a Lux at 1/4 the price and still produce images that are high quality.  I feel that my pixel peeping is getting the better of me (what can i say, i am a trained scientist and it is this attention to minute details that makes me good at that job, while often miserable in life!).

If you asked me 5 years ago what was my dream camera setup I would have said a leica M (preferably monochrom) with a 50 lux.  That just seemed such an abstract idea given what I had to spend on a camera and lens.  It is funny how I ran right past my aspiration...  

[didier]

11 hours ago, Drmat said:

@earleygallery - yes, the advantage of being an amateur. It is a privilege that one can do this for joy.

+1