Elmarit 21mm asph - the leased loved Leica lens?

[lct]

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3 hours ago, crony said:

I have both. The Elmarit is better. And you have a richer experience using it

Compared to my CV 21/4 at the same apertures, my Elmarit 21/2.8 asph has generally less flare and a bit less distortion. It shows also less color shifts (red edge) on my M240 and it looks a bit sharper at f/4. At f/5.6 and on i can hardly tell which is which if i don't shoot into the light. FWIW.

[adan]

Bottom line for me was  that I got the 21 pre-ASPH first - and never saw any convincing evidence that I'd get better pictures by upgrading to anything that followed (and paying an arm and a leg for the privilege.)

In fact, generally the opposite - I'd lose the sweet Mandler/Canada color and tonality.

That happened to include the Elmarit ASPH, but also any 21mm from any other source.

Monochrom I, 21mm Elmarit-M pre-ASPH

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[Stein K S]

On 2/11/2021 at 3:30 PM, Nowhereman said:

I've always been happy with the Elmarit-21 ASPH, both on film and digital, and never hankered after the 21SEM. Indeed, I have wondered why more people are not seeking to buy used ones. I have not had any trouble with the hood, which I find stays on securely; and I don't mind the external viewfinder: I use the Zeiss 21 one. Sometimes, use this lens for "no finder shots" and point it at the subject without bringing the viewfinder up to my eye.

Whenever I've gone out with the Elmarit-21 ASPH, I've almost always come back with some images that I like a lot. Below are some photos with the lens that I've posted before, which show how versatile this lens can be. (The second image is a "no finder shot". The first one looks great as a 36 x 24 inch print, better than below.)

M6 | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | Tri-X | ISO 400 | f/5.6 | 1/250 sec | Bangkok

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M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/11 | 1/350 sec | Chiang Mai

M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 320 | f/8 | 1/125 sec | Colombo

M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 1250 | f/5.6 | 1/125 sec | Chiang Ma

M9-P | ISO 640 | Elmarit-21 ASPH | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Bangkok

M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/8 | 1/350 sec | Paris

M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 160 | f/4 | 1/750 sec | Pak Nam Pran

M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/4 | 1/60 sec | Pak Nam Pran
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Hi and thanks! And well, I am norwegian (norsk)... but I can hardly claim to very analythical... 🤪 (someone else you are aiming at?!).

Very nice pics! The B&W... did you ad some grain and push some levers in PP? Looks very nice and somewhat film like (I know the first one is Tri-X). Or is it actually the upload resolution that makes part of the look?

PS: use the Zeiss 21 view finder myself and it is just so big, bright and clear 👍

[Guest Nowhereman]

@Stein K S - Thanks. I generally do high-contrast B&W and the processing, either in Lightroom or Silver Efex, usually brings out a grain-like look — it's not the upload that's doing that.

I like @adan's image above — maybe it's the Elmarit 21 pre-ASPH that's the the "least loved Leica lens". I bought originally (new), around 1998; and a few months later I saw the ASPH in the window of a 5th-Avenue camera store in New York. It was a display copy being sold at a deep discount. I bought it because at that time I thought anything "ASPH" must be a lot better and I never had a chance even to compare the two. I sold that pre-ASPH for what I had paid for it.

[Naturligtvis visste jag att du var norsk och jag skämtade bara. Du förstor, jag bodde i Stockholm när jag var barn och kände verkligen att jag var svensk när jag kom till staterna vid elva års ålder, men jag talar språket dåligt nu. Om du är i Oslo kan du se min bok på Tronsmo Bokhandel, men den är ganska dyr på grund av produktionskostnaden som inkluderar handbindning.]
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[giannis]

On 2/11/2021 at 12:25 PM, Stein K S said:

Hi

After following this forum for a few years, I tend to get the impression that this Elmarit 21mm asph is remarkably little spoken of. And when it is, it tend to be ¨unfavourable¨. It is either the SEM or the pre-ASPH that gets the most credits.

Even Mr Puts in his compendium under the chapter for this lens, he spends unusual amount of space talking about wide angle physics & challenges in general than about this lens in specific... 😉

How come? I am curious because I own this lens myself. And I myself also struggle to really bond to this lens (not the focal length as such)... not really knowing why. My closest little ¨conclusion¨ is that the drawing of this lens is... well, boring; neither classic nor with the ¨lucidness¨ of for example the 28 cron asph v1 or the 35 lux pre-fle. At times I even find it to be harsh...

 

What about you guys out there having experiences with it? 

 

Thank you for all comments!

I think it's because the 21mm f/3.4 is like a "model" Leica lens, as if you took everything Leica is supposed to represent and distilled it in a single lens.

It has very good performance (sharpness, distortion, etc.). It has excellent ergonomics and size. It showcases all the advantages of rf lenses vs SLR designs especially for wides. And to top it all off, it's  premium but still reasonably priced. 

It's a rare case where Leica came out with a newer lens, that was smaller, lighter, better performing and substantially cheaper than its predecessor. The only sacrifice being less than a stop of speed, in a lens whose use case rarely necessitates speed. This leaves the previous design in an awkward spot. It's not that it's bad by any stretch, but being slightly worse in almost every aspect and especially price, it means it'll be rarely talked about when talking about potential buyers.

Edited February 14, 2021 by giannis
typos

[Stein K S]

48 minutes ago, giannis said:

I think it's because the 21mm f/3.4 is like a "model" Leica lens, as if you took everything Leica is supposed to represent and distilled it in a single lens.

It has very good performance (sharpness, distortion, etc.). It has excellent ergonomics and size. It showcases all the advantages of rf lenses vs SLR designs especially for wides. And to top it all off, it's  premium but still reasonably priced. 

It's a rare case where Leica came out with a newer lens, that was smaller, lighter, better performing and substantially cheaper than its predecessor. The only sacrifice being less than a stop of speed, in a lens whose use case rarely necessitates speed. This leaves the previous design in an awkward spot. It's not that it's bad by any stretch, but being slightly worse in almost every aspect and especially price, it means it'll be rarely talked about when talking about potential buyers.

Hi

Thank you for putting forward this very rightful summary! 👍

Edited February 14, 2021 by Stein K S

[Stein K S]

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19 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

@Stein K S - Thanks. I generally do high-contrast B&W and the processing, either in Lightroom or Silver Efex, usually brings out a grain-like look — it's not the upload that's doing that.

I like @adan's image above — maybe it's the Elmarit 21 pre-ASPH that's the the "least loved Leica lens". I bought originally (new), around 1998; and a few months later I saw the ASPH in the window of a 5th-Avenue camera store in New York. It was a display copy being sold at a deep discount. I bought it because at that time I thought anything "ASPH" must be a lot better and I never had a chance even to compare the two. I sold that pre-ASPH for what I had paid for it.

[Naturligtvis visste jag att du var norsk och jag skämtade bara. Du förstor, jag bodde i Stockholm när jag var barn och kände verkligen att jag var svensk när jag kom till staterna vid elva års ålder, men jag talar språket dåligt nu. Om du är i Oslo kan du se min bok på Tronsmo Bokhandel, men den är ganska dyr på grund av produktionskostnaden som inkluderar handbindning.]
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Hi again

I had a quick look at your book! And very impressing. In particular all the ¨wide angle¨ fold-outs! I will have a better look at Tronsmo Bookstore!

 

Regards

Edited February 14, 2021 by Stein K S

[Ernstk]

On 2/11/2021 at 12:13 PM, wda said:

My view is that, except for journalistic or war photography, 21 mm is an extremely challenging focal length to use, on a regular basis. I have the subject lens and have never been tempted to upgrade this focal length. Surprisingly, when I used it on my M8, when it operated like a 28 mm lens, I got a stunning result and resolved to use it more on my full-frame bodies. It is one of those challenges which are never met. It will go on my 'to do' list'.

For me, 21mm is the most 'natural' focal length to use on my M-P 240.  It completely brings alive for me how to 'see' with a rangefinder.

Ernst

[Cobram]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2021 at 9:18 PM, lct said:

Compared to my CV 21/4 at the same apertures, my Elmarit 21/2.8 asph has generally less flare and a bit less distortion. It shows also less color shifts (red edge) on my M240 and it looks a bit sharper at f/4. At f/5.6 and on i can hardly tell which is which if i don't shoot into the light. FWIW.

I agree with you. Flare is very pronounced on CV 21/4. I will post some examples. I didn't notice it until few days ago when shooting into evening sun...Thanks.

Do you have experience with SEM? 

[lct]

1 hour ago, Cobram said:

Do you have experience with SEM?

See the link below but feel free to ask any question.

 

[nicci78]

On 2/15/2021 at 6:50 PM, Ernstk said:

For me, 21mm is the most 'natural' focal length to use on my M-P 240.  It completely brings alive for me how to 'see' with a rangefinder.

Ernst

Fun fact with 21mm lens, you are not using the rangefinder anymore. 
cause you’ll need an external optical/electronic viewfinder. 

[Ernstk]

10 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Fun fact with 21mm lens, you are not using the rangefinder anymore. 
cause you’ll need an external optical/electronic viewfinder. 

Not such a fun fact!

Of course I'm using the rangefinder. It's how I focus.

For the field of view, I've found that by working beyond the extreme edges of the viewfinder, you can estimate the FOV of the 21mm lens, when used on my M-P 240. It takes a bit of practice but soon becomes quite accurate.

Ernst

[a.noctilux]

I second Ernst.

Since long time (decades use) of 21mm I don't NEED to look in VF anymore.

I have the framing "in my eyes", after some practices very easy with 21mm, not relying on VF (OVF or EVF).

 

if I remember well, I had the M6+21mm stabilized on my shoulder (or on my bag),

previsualized the framing, and happy to have done that for "natural looking" people.

Edited February 18, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Ernstk]

27 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I second Ernst.

Since long time (decades use) of 21mm I don't NEED to look in VF anymore.

I have the framing "in my eyes"...

 

I'm the same. If I'm doing street photography, I'll have the camera at chest or shoulder level and don't use the viewfinder. I know fairly accurately what the FOV will be on the 21mm.

Ernst

[nicci78]

I never focused my SEM 21 with the rangefinder. Only zone focusing and framing with the help of the external optical VF. 
That’s why  I assumed that you won’t even use the rangefinder. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by nicci78

[Ernstk]

3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I never focused my SEM 21 with the rangefinder. Only zone focusing and framing with the help of the external optical VF. 
That’s why  I assumed that you won’t even use the rangefinder. 

I focus mine with the rangefinder, as normal but as mentioned earlier, I have learned to 'see' the FOV of the lens and the subjects that I'm framing.

Ernst

[crony]

Hi, I am very happy with my Elmarit asph. I have seen no reason to get the SEM (up to now). On the M9 in Wiesbaden/D :

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Edited February 18, 2021 by crony
Wrong thread, sorry

[panoramer]

today walking by beautiful light...

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M10M • Elmarit-M 1:2.8/21 ASPH. • ISO 160 • F 2.8  • 1/1000 • Hiking trail in Lübeck, Germany

[panoramer]

the new funktion is perfekt. Leica Perspective Control (LPC):

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M10M • Elmarit-M 1:2.8/21 ASPH. • ISO 160 • F 2.8  • 1/500 • LPC •  Salzspeicher / Saltware houses in Lübeck, Germany

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M10 | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 200 | f/5.6 | 1/1000 sec | Turks & Caicos

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