Stein K S Posted February 11, 2021 Share #1 Posted February 11, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi After following this forum for a few years, I tend to get the impression that this Elmarit 21mm asph is remarkably little spoken of. And when it is, it tend to be ¨unfavourable¨. It is either the SEM or the pre-ASPH that gets the most credits. Even Mr Puts in his compendium under the chapter for this lens, he spends unusual amount of space talking about wide angle physics & challenges in general than about this lens in specific... 😉 How come? I am curious because I own this lens myself. And I myself also struggle to really bond to this lens (not the focal length as such)... not really knowing why. My closest little ¨conclusion¨ is that the drawing of this lens is... well, boring; neither classic nor with the ¨lucidness¨ of for example the 28 cron asph v1 or the 35 lux pre-fle. At times I even find it to be harsh... What about you guys out there having experiences with it? Thank you for all comments! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 11, 2021 Posted February 11, 2021 Hi Stein K S, Take a look here Elmarit 21mm asph - the leased loved Leica lens?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
RayD28 Posted February 11, 2021 Share #2 Posted February 11, 2021 31 minutes ago, Stein K S said: Hi After following this forum for a few years, I tend to get the impression that this Elmarit 21mm asph is remarkably little spoken of. And when it is, it tend to be ¨unfavourable¨. It is either the SEM or the pre-ASPH that gets the most credits. Even Mr Puts in his compendium under the chapter for this lens, he spends unusual amount of space talking about wide angle physics & challenges in general than about this lens in specific... 😉 How come? I am curious because I own this lens myself. And I myself also struggle to really bond to this lens (not the focal length as such)... not really knowing why. My closest little ¨conclusion¨ is that the drawing of this lens is... well, boring; neither classic nor with the ¨lucidness¨ of for example the 28 cron asph v1 or the 35 lux pre-fle. At times I even find it to be harsh... What about you guys out there having experiences with it? Thank you for all comments! Thanks for posting this question because I've often thought the same. Never tried the 2.8 or the 3.4 but many say the 3.4 is superior so I'm eager to learn why. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted February 11, 2021 Share #3 Posted February 11, 2021 My view is that, except for journalistic or war photography, 21 mm is an extremely challenging focal length to use, on a regular basis. I have the subject lens and have never been tempted to upgrade this focal length. Surprisingly, when I used it on my M8, when it operated like a 28 mm lens, I got a stunning result and resolved to use it more on my full-frame bodies. It is one of those challenges which are never met. It will go on my 'to do' list'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 11, 2021 Share #4 Posted February 11, 2021 The problem is that the SEM is so good that it overshadows previous versions. But the pre-aspheric has character without the drawbacks of the Super-Angulon and can be found quite cheap. So the aspheric sits between a reasonably prced lens and the costlier SEM, so if you want a modern 21mm the SEM is an option if you don't mind the higher cost or the pre-aspheric if you want a relatively cheaper lens. There isn't much mystery about this I'm afraid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted February 11, 2021 Share #5 Posted February 11, 2021 I used to have the 21mm Elmarit ASPH. I used it on an M6 and M9. It was very sharp, and I really liked the way it drew. The two downsides - for me - were that I found using a bolt-on viewfinder a bit of a chore, and I had no end of bother with the way the lens hood fitted on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anrotil68 Posted February 11, 2021 Share #6 Posted February 11, 2021 I've the 21SEM on M10M and I use it on my SL2/SL2...STUNNING lens !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 11, 2021 Share #7 Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The 21/2.8 asph is a very good lens that i use mainly indoor at f/2.8. It has slightly less acutance and contrast than the 21/3.4 asph at full aperture, which can be an advantage on portraits. It flares a bit more than the latter, especially when the sun or other strong light source is just outside the frame. Only sigificant flaw to me it feels rather bulky when the stock hood is on. Edited February 11, 2021 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 11, 2021 Share #8 Posted February 11, 2021 I've always been happy with the Elmarit-21 ASPH, both on film and digital, and never hankered after the 21SEM. Indeed, I have wondered why more people are not seeking to buy used ones. I have not had any trouble with the hood, which I find stays on securely; and I don't mind the external viewfinder: I use the Zeiss 21 one. Sometimes, use this lens for "no finder shots" and point it at the subject without bringing the viewfinder up to my eye. Whenever I've gone out with the Elmarit-21 ASPH, I've almost always come back with some images that I like a lot. Below are some photos with the lens that I've posted before, which show how versatile this lens can be. (The second image is a "no finder shot". The first one looks great as a 36 x 24 inch print, better than below.) M6 | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | Tri-X | ISO 400 | f/5.6 | 1/250 sec | Bangkok Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/11 | 1/350 sec | Chiang Mai M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 320 | f/8 | 1/125 sec | Colombo M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 1250 | f/5.6 | 1/125 sec | Chiang Ma M9-P | ISO 640 | Elmarit-21 ASPH | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Bangkok M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/8 | 1/350 sec | Paris M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 160 | f/4 | 1/750 sec | Pak Nam Pran M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/4 | 1/60 sec | Pak Nam Pran ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/11 | 1/350 sec | Chiang Mai M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 320 | f/8 | 1/125 sec | Colombo M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 1250 | f/5.6 | 1/125 sec | Chiang Ma M9-P | ISO 640 | Elmarit-21 ASPH | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Bangkok M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/8 | 1/350 sec | Paris M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 160 | f/4 | 1/750 sec | Pak Nam Pran M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/4 | 1/60 sec | Pak Nam Pran ________________________ Frog Leaping photobook ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317888-elmarit-21mm-asph-the-leased-loved-leica-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4138531'>More sharing options...
colint544 Posted February 11, 2021 Share #9 Posted February 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Nowhereman said: I've always been happy with the Elmarit-21 ASPH, both on film and digital, and never hankered after the 21SEM. Indeed, I have wondered why more people are not seeking to buy used ones. I have not had any trouble with the hood, which I find stays on securely; and I don't mind the external viewfinder: I use the Zeiss 21 one. Sometimes, use this lens for "no finder shots" and point it at the subject without bringing the viewfinder up to my eye. Whenever I've gone out with the Elmarit-21 ASPH, I've almost always come back with some images that I like a lot. Below are some photos with the lens that I've posted before, which show how versatile this lens can be. (The second image is a "no finder shot". The first one looks great as a 36 x 24 inch print, better than below.) M6 | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | Tri-X | ISO 400 | f/5.6 | 1/250 sec | Bangkok Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/11 | 1/350 sec | Chiang Mai M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 320 | f/8 | 1/125 sec | Colombo M-Monochrom | Elmarit- 21 ASPH | ISO 1250 | f/5.6 | 1/125 sec | Chiang Ma M9-P | ISO 640 | Elmarit-21 ASPH | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Bangkok M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/8 | 1/350 sec | Paris M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 160 | f/4 | 1/750 sec | Pak Nam Pran M9-P | Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/4 | 1/60 sec | Pak Nam Pran ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Lovely set of images 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted February 11, 2021 Share #10 Posted February 11, 2021 I hope it didn't seem as though I was dissing the 21 Elmarit ASPH. I thought it was a great lens, perhaps just not for me. Here's a shot I took of an air vent on Liverpool's Mersey tunnel, using the 21 Elmarit ASPH on my Leica M6. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317888-elmarit-21mm-asph-the-leased-loved-leica-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4138798'>More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share #11 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Hi to all and thanks! I got quite some motivation back to look at this lens with ¨new eyes¨. I find the descrition by pgk in post #4 to be very reasonable. And seeing the photos posted by Nowhereman in post #8 makes me now put my undefined ¨critical¨ mindset about this lens aside (... at least for a while...😉). PS: Am I the only one wondering why I like som lenses more than others (aside from focal length and ergonomics) while it is hard to put the finger on really why? Edited February 12, 2021 by Stein K S 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 12, 2021 Share #12 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stein K S said: PS: Am I the only one wondering why I like som lenses more than others (aside from focal length and ergonomics) while it is hard to put the finger on really why? Gnothi seauton Socrates said . Dunno for you but the problem is generally me when i dislike something with no apparent reason. As far as lenses are concerned i'm not fond of the 50/2 apo for example and the only reason i found is i don't like perfection. Lenses like 21/2.8 asph are not perfect but have no obvious flaws or qualities and may feel boring for this reason. Those are tools one can rely upon, kind of Yamaha piano sort of . Edited February 12, 2021 by lct 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 12, 2021 Share #13 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stein K S said: ...Am I the only one wondering why I like som lenses more than others (aside from focal length and ergonomics) while it is hard to put the finger on really why? Hej, Stein — Är du den analytiska norsken? Seriously, though, I don't really know why I like both the DR Summicron 50 and the Summilux 50 pre-ASPH so much that I prefer them to the Summicron 50 ASPH or the Summilux 50 ASPH, though I remember that when the latter lens came out a friend and I looked at it's rendition and ran out and bought (for $1,350) the last two new Summilux 50 pre-ASPH lenses in Bangkok. As for the Elmarit 21 ASPH, it's the only 21mm lens I've used, and perhaps my images above only indicate that the 21 field of view can be flexible, depending how you frame the subject. You can also create a really "lensy" wide-angle space like the first and second images below or, by "closing up" the back plane, create a look that doesn't create a wide-angle feel at all, like the third picture below, although that may not be such a good example because it was taken with the M8 and has an EFOV of a 28mm lens. A better example is the second image in the post #8 above (the man with the bushy eyebrows). M9-P | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/5.6 | 1/350 sec | Paris Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M9-P | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/8.0 | 1/180 sec | Pak Nam Pran M9-P | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 320 | f/4.0 | 1/500 sec | Bangkok________________________Frog Leaping photobook Edited February 12, 2021 by Nowhereman Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M9-P | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/8.0 | 1/180 sec | Pak Nam Pran M9-P | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 320 | f/4.0 | 1/500 sec | Bangkok________________________ Frog Leaping photobook ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317888-elmarit-21mm-asph-the-leased-loved-leica-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4139179'>More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 12, 2021 Share #14 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Can't resist adding two more example of closing up the back plane, somewhat. BTW, these are both "no finder" shots. The first, I had passed this woman and then turned back a walked towards her, holding the camera at my chest. In the second, the woman on the motor-bike taxi had been walking a few steps ahead of me, when she suddenly spun around and jumped up on the pillion and I shot with the camera at waist level without the time to bring it up to my eye to frame in the viewfinder. M-Monochrom | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 1250 | f/4.0 | 1/180 sec | Bangkok Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M-Monochrom | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/5.6 | 1/500 sec | Bangkok ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Edited February 12, 2021 by Nowhereman Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M-Monochrom | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/5.6 | 1/500 sec | Bangkok ________________________ Frog Leaping photobook ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317888-elmarit-21mm-asph-the-leased-loved-leica-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4139182'>More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 12, 2021 Share #15 Posted February 12, 2021 46 minutes ago, lct said: ...Lenses like 21/2.8 asph are not perfect but have no obvious flaws or qualities and may feel boring for this reason. Those are tools one can rely upon, kind of Yamaha piano sort of . You mean not a Steinway or something like that? Don't know pianos, but the Elmarit 21 ASPH is a Leica lens, not a Yashica, and has some character although I cannot define what it is: what I mean is that I don't see it as a clinical lens. The only lens that I have that could possibly be called clinical is the Macro-Elmar 90 f/4, but even with that one I seem to have some images that I don't think have a clinical look. ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 12, 2021 Share #16 Posted February 12, 2021 Not sure if your pics nice above would have been different with a CV 21/4 but there are excellent Yamaha pianos indeed . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crony Posted February 12, 2021 Share #17 Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, lct said: Not sure if your pics nice above would have been different with a CV 21/4 but there are excellent Yamaha pianos indeed . Hi, I have both. The Elmarit is better. And you have a richer experience using it . (😁 ) Elmarit : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Voigtländer Color-Skopar : 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Voigtländer Color-Skopar : ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317888-elmarit-21mm-asph-the-leased-loved-leica-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4139319'>More sharing options...
Cobram Posted February 12, 2021 Share #18 Posted February 12, 2021 Can you post more photos of Skopar f4 vs Elmarit ASPH? I currently own Skopar and I'm really impressed by its size, sharpness and rendering, especially in black and white... Curious about difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crony Posted February 12, 2021 Share #19 Posted February 12, 2021 47 minutes ago, Cobram said: Can you post more photos of Skopar f4 vs Elmarit ASPH? I currently own Skopar and I'm really impressed by its size, sharpness and rendering, especially in black and white... Curious about difference. Hi, I shall try to find something. Of course, no ceteris paribus... --- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crony Posted February 12, 2021 Share #20 Posted February 12, 2021 Hi, these are somewhat alike, at least same place ... Both at f 8, handheld, DNGs in DXO developped and converted into JPEGs, in photoshop resized. Skopar 4/21: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Elmarit 2,,8/21 asph.: (You can see flaring in the lower left corner of the Voigtländer pic. This can happen. Of course, there are pics you cannot do with the Skopar, because it is slower. But I like its pocketability. The Elmarit is bigger, heavier etc. The good thing about its lenshood: it rests horizontally on even surfaces mounted on the M9, which I find helpful in buildings, my M9s having poor high ISO performance ... ) 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Elmarit 2,,8/21 asph.: (You can see flaring in the lower left corner of the Voigtländer pic. This can happen. Of course, there are pics you cannot do with the Skopar, because it is slower. But I like its pocketability. The Elmarit is bigger, heavier etc. The good thing about its lenshood: it rests horizontally on even surfaces mounted on the M9, which I find helpful in buildings, my M9s having poor high ISO performance ... ) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317888-elmarit-21mm-asph-the-leased-loved-leica-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4139392'>More sharing options...
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