New to Leica..M10 question

[BrettW]

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Hi, this is my first post here and I’m looking for some first hand user experience.

I’m considering buying myself a new M10-P and 35mm summilux asph fle lens for my 40th birthday. I’m primarily a travel photographer with a particular interest in environmental portraits. My workhorse camera is currently a Sony A7iii and my street camera is a Fuji X100f.... the Leica will replace the latter.

A few questions I have about the camera:

-is the camera sensitive to knocks or bumps... does it need calibration often?

-I’m not interested in buying a visoflex, how difficult is it to nail focus at f1.4 with the view finder or live view?

-I don’t need more resolution than 24mp but should I consider the M10-R for the new sensor?

 

I think that about covers it, thanks for the help

 

-Brett

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[a.noctilux]

Hello Brett, welcome here.

If you never have Leica M, you may not like it.

But if you don't buy one, how you would know that you like the M or not.

Leica M can't replace your X100f and your X100f can not give you M experiences.

 

Why not just buy plain M10 second hand and a good lens of your choice ( for me, it would be harder to choose a lens out of hundreds than the body ).

This would give you Leica M experience for say about USD/£ 5.000 comparing to double that if you buy new.

 

Arnaud

[farnz]

Hi Brett,

Firstly, welcome to the forum! 😊

Knocks and bumps *can* cause the rangefinder calibration to go off but in the 20-odd years of using M-mount cameras it's only happened once after a strap break when my M8 fell onto concrete.

I have used a 50/1.0 Noctilux, which has a slightly thinner depth of field wide open than the 35/1.4 Summilux asph FLE, with my M3, (film) MP, M9P, M240, and M10 and I have no trouble nailing focus wide open.  One thing I have noticed is that if I haven't used the Noctilux for a while it takes me a little while (a couple of hours or so) until I get my eye in and nail focus reliably.  Manually nailing focus with a thin depth of field after you're used to AF can take a little time so my advice is to be patient and practice a lot and you should find it comes to you - don't get dispirited.

There is a lot of excellent advice on the forum about tips and techniques for nailing focus so I recommend reading them.

Some people don't take to rangefinders easily because it's so different from through-the-lens shooting but when you persevere and get used to it it's worth the effort (imo).

With the M10-R there are probably more things to consider than just that its sensor is newer than the M10's, which has an excellent sensor.  Do you actually need 40+ Mpx for what you shoot?  Would you see a difference between pictures shot at 24 Mpx and 40+ Mpx for what you shoot?  Do you crop a lot that would make use of the extra Mpx?  Will you need to invest in more computer storage to manage the larger files? Etc. 

Happy 40th!

Pete.

[BrettW]

Hi Arnaud,

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts...your points are valid and I agree that I may not like it but I'm sure I'm going to love the raw process (no pun intended)

Quote

Leica M can't replace your X100f and your X100f can not give you M experiences

I like this quote...I believe that the M, to me, will be another tool that I will reach for depending on the experience I want to have. I like challenges, mechanical things and simplicity...I believe that I will be able to immerse myself more in the moment with this camera.

Quote

 

Why not just buy plain M10 second hand and a good lens of your choice ( for me, it would be harder to choose a lens out of hundreds than the body ).

This would give you Leica M experience for say about USD/£ 5.000 comparing to double that if you buy new.

 

This makes perfect sense and in most circumstances I would agree, however this is a special camera for a milestone in my life. I want every scratch and wear mark on the camera to tell a story of my travels and experiences...this is the connection I have to my cameras.

[BrettW]

Hi Pete,

Thank you for the warm welcome

Quote

Knocks and bumps *can* cause the rangefinder calibration to go off but in the 20-odd years of using M-mount cameras it's only happened once after a strap break when my M8 fell onto concrete.

Okay, this is good to know...I don't abuse my gear but I'm certainly not afraid to use it in any situation I find myself in.

Quote

I have used a 50/1.0 Noctilux, which has a slightly thinner depth of field wide open than the 35/1.4 Summilux asph FLE, with my M3, (film) MP, M9P, M240, and M10 and I have no trouble nailing focus wide open.  One thing I have noticed is that if I haven't used the Noctilux for a while it takes me a little while (a couple of hours or so) until I get my eye in and nail focus reliably.  Manually nailing focus with a thin depth of field after you're used to AF can take a little time so my advice is to be patient and practice a lot and you should find it comes to you - don't get dispirited.

This is insightful, I suspect that it will take quite a lot of practice on my part to master this process...still, I think it sounds fun and challenging.

Quote

There is a lot of excellent advice on the forum about tips and techniques for nailing focus so I recommend reading them.

There seems to be a wealth of knowledge here...thanks, I'll be sure to read up on the subjects I need help with.

Quote

Some people don't take to rangefinders easily because it's so different from through-the-lens shooting but when you persevere and get used to it it's worth the effort (imo).

Sometimes something different is exactly what I need for enjoyment and the creative thought process...I'm looking forward to the learning curve.

Quote

With the M10-R there are probably more things to consider than just that its sensor is newer than the M10's, which has an excellent sensor.  Do you actually need 40+ Mpx for what you shoot?  Would you see a difference between pictures shot at 24 Mpx and 40+ Mpx for what you shoot?  Do you crop a lot that would make use of the extra Mpx?  Will you need to invest in more computer storage to manage the larger files? Etc. 

Great questions and thank you for asking them...No I certainly don't need 40+ mpx and I don't think I would see much of a difference. Honestly I really try to avoid cropping my photos unless a little tweaking is necessary, I try and frame it right the first time. Come to think of it, working on an 80mb file doesn't sound too fun...lol.

[a.noctilux]

Brett,

just an idea,

for me the thinking like "Leica for life" had gone long ago.

They are just ... tools (expensive for some people),

digital Leica Ms are just that, tools for pleasure ( or for work if you have paid pictures ), for very limited time ...

They need once in a while some CLA/adjusts/repairs.

I think that everything can go wrong some day, untill replaced by newer ones when not repairable anymore (or too dear to have them done).

Long time user of Leitz/Leica cameras/lenses (as me ex-romantic-Leica-lover guy) can tell ...

Edited February 9, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Guest Nowhereman]

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10 hours ago, BrettW said:

...-is the camera sensitive to knocks or bumps... does it need calibration often?

-I’m not interested in buying a visoflex, how difficult is it to nail focus at f1.4 with the view finder or live view?

-I don’t need more resolution than 24mp but should I consider the M10-R for the new sensor?...

I've had Leica-M cameras since 1988 and never had the rangefinder need adjustment, although it can be affected by shocks.

I have the M10 and the 020 Visoflex, but don't really like using the latter.

I'm not interested in the M10-R for the reasons stated here.
________________________
Frog Leaping photobook

[Stephen.s1]

My own advice re: RF focusing: When in the split field and are twisting the focus STOP when you see that first contrast alignment.  Don't fall into the habit of diddling back and forth to check. With practice you'll learn that there'll be no doubt about your skill and you'll nail 'em every time.  When you can do this in gloomy flat light concistantly  It's a great feeling.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with a fun camera.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Stephen.s1
typo

[LBJ2]

11 hours ago, BrettW said:

Hi, this is my first post here and I’m looking for some first hand user experience.

I’m considering buying myself a new M10-P and 35mm summilux asph fle lens for my 40th birthday. I’m primarily a travel photographer with a particular interest in environmental portraits. My workhorse camera is currently a Sony A7iii and my street camera is a Fuji X100f.... the Leica will replace the latter.

A few questions I have about the camera:

-is the camera sensitive to knocks or bumps... does it need calibration often?

-I’m not interested in buying a visoflex, how difficult is it to nail focus at f1.4 with the view finder or live view?

-I don’t need more resolution than 24mp but should I consider the M10-R for the new sensor?

 

I think that about covers it, thanks for the help

 

-Brett

Two years with my first Leica camera, the M10 and so far the RF remains precise. I do use my gear often and as needed, only taking care not to use in any sort of rain and of course handling as careful as I would any other advanced camera system. 

With some practice ( weeks), I am now able to use the RF for both 1.4 and even f0.95 successfully and consistently. I was pleasantly surprised how quickly I was able to shoot RF at F0.95 consistently too. * I do need to use my specs when using the rangefinder and if I get into a situation where RF is difficult, I'll substitute with Zone Focusing sometimes using both techniques, to get the shot. 

The 24MP M10 sensor is just fine, more than fine for me even along side my 61 MP Sony. I am sure I will at some point upgrade to the M10-R, but for now I don't see any need or urgency to update the M10 to 40.89 MPs.  Just starting out, I might advise to spend on Leica M lenses and start out with the 24MP M10. 

FWIW, even after two years I am still thrilled and very happy with my Leica Rangefinder kit which to me is a completely different system and approach compared to my Sony mirrorless system. I would't give up either any time soon, and very happy I can use both systems. 

[LBJ2]

1 hour ago, Stephen.s1 said:

My own advice re: RF focusing: When in the split field and are twisting the focus STOP when you see that first contrast alignment.  Don't fall into the habit of diddling back and forth to check. With practice you'll learn that there'll be no doubt about your skill and you'll nail 'em every time.  When you can do this in gloomy flat light concistantly  It's a great feeling.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with a fun camera.

I agree and like your advice on the RF. That's exactly the conclusion I came to after some practice during my first few weeks.

The only other advice I would add is to keep the viewfinder/rangefinder windows clean. I carry a microfiber specifically for this purpose whenever I use the M10. Clean as needed because all it can take is one small smudge from the finer tip to impact seeing the RF alignment clearly.

[Dennis]

13 hours ago, BrettW said:

Hi, this is my first post here and I’m looking for some first hand user experience.

Very welcome to the forum

13 hours ago, BrettW said:

I’m considering buying myself a new M10-P and 35mm summilux asph fle lens for my 40th birthday.

I did the same for my 40th birthday: a brand new M10 plus a lens. One of my best present ever 🙂

13 hours ago, BrettW said:

-I’m not interested in buying a visoflex, how difficult is it to nail focus at f1.4 with the view finder or live view?

It's not difficult at all, but it could be at the beginning. Practice, practice and practice, and you will be able to do whatever you want.

13 hours ago, BrettW said:

-I don’t need more resolution than 24mp but should I consider the M10-R for the new sensor?

M10-P is more than enough, go for it.

 

 

[M11 for me]

To KNOCKS AND BUMPS: Unfortunately mine fell down twice from the hight of a seat of approx 40 to 45cm onto hard ground: The first time onto gravel and the second time onto a hard tile. Well there are very little marks on the body but the rest was fine and perfect. Maybe I was lucky but I am sure that the equipment is extremely solid. 

A few years ago I droped a cheap Canon 50mm 1.4 from from about 30cm onto the soft carpet in my office. The lens was broken and could be repaired only at a price that was higher than a new one. I then bought a Sigma Art 50mm f/1.4 instead. This Sigma I still have and I use it a lot. Its a solid piece as the Leica lenses and bodies.

Edited February 9, 2021 by M10 for me

[M11 for me]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb M10 for me:

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by M10 for me
posted twice, sorry

[newtoleica]

Just to add my bit to the good advice.

The 10P and 10D look so nice with the lettering on top and no red dot, bit its a personal thing. I just swapped my 10P for a 10D. It was a hard decision but to me the 'absence' of the rear LCD is my perfect digital camera. The P is lovely too. 24MP is a sweet spot.

I have a Visioflex 020 as its quite a useful addition to the D (es when using wide or long lenses (I have a 24 Summilux and a 90mm Elmarit)

I dropped my M9 Monochrom once, from standing height. It landed on the lens hood of the 35mm Summilux mk1 and broke the hood. The vertical alignment got knocked out of whack. 'Normal' use won't do that.

Quite get your idea of getting what you want and enjoying it from the start.

[BrettW]

Thank you everyone for all of the great replies...I like this community and everyone's willingness to share ideas and help out.

Quote

They are just ... tools (expensive for some people),

-A.Noctilux, I agree..a camera is just a tool and it is a very expensive one at that. I'm the kind of guy that would buy a finely crafted screwdriver for 10 times the price of a cheap Chinese one. Both will accomplish the same job (hopefully without breaking) but I enjoy quality, craftsmanship and pride in ownership. I love photography, I certainly favor certain brands over others but I don't feel that I would have a life long commitment to one brand...whatever tool works best for my needs.

Quote

I've had Leica-M cameras since 1988 and never had the rangefinder need adjustment, although it can be affected by shocks.

I have the M10 and the 020 Visoflex, but don't really like using the latter.

-Nowhereman, thanks for the reply...it sounds like with a certain degree of care it shouldn't need routine adjustments...this is great!

Quote

My own advice re: RF focusing: When in the split field and are twisting the focus STOP when you see that first contrast alignment.  Don't fall into the habit of diddling back and forth to check. With practice you'll learn that there'll be no doubt about your skill and you'll nail 'em every time.  When you can do this in gloomy flat light concistantly  It's a great feeling.

-Stephen.s1, Thank you for the advice...I look forward applying that technique

Quote

Two years with my first Leica camera, the M10 and so far the RF remains precise. I do use my gear often and as needed, only taking care not to use in any sort of rain and of course handling as careful as I would any other advanced camera system. 

With some practice ( weeks), I am now able to use the RF for both 1.4 and even f0.95 successfully and consistently. I was pleasantly surprised how quickly I was able to shoot RF at F0.95 consistently too. * I do need to use my specs when using the rangefinder and if I get into a situation where RF is difficult, I'll substitute with Zone Focusing sometimes using both techniques, to get the shot. 

The 24MP M10 sensor is just fine, more than fine for me even along side my 61 MP Sony. I am sure I will at some point upgrade to the M10-R, but for now I don't see any need or urgency to update the M10 to 40.89 MPs.  Just starting out, I might advise to spend on Leica M lenses and start out with the 24MP M10. 

FWIW, even after two years I am still thrilled and very happy with my Leica Rangefinder kit which to me is a completely different system and approach compared to my Sony mirrorless system. I would't give up either any time soon, and very happy I can use both systems. 

-LBJ2, Thank you for the tip on keeping the rangefinder window clean...I think the 24mpx M10-P will be perfect for my applications. I really like my Sony too and I just love the thought of having a drastically different system...I'm looking forward to it. I'm a perfectionist, I can't help it...I insist that my first lens be a Leica M lens...good glass never goes out of style.

Quote

I did the same for my 40th birthday: a brand new M10 plus a lens. One of my best present ever 🙂

_Dennis, great minds think alike...thanks for the encouragement

Quote

To KNOCKS AND BUMPS: Unfortunately mine fell down twice from the hight of a seat of approx 40 to 45cm onto hard ground: The first time onto gravel and the second time onto a hard tile. Well there are very little marks on the body but the rest was fine and perfect. Maybe I was lucky but I am sure that the equipment is extremely solid. 

-M10forMe, I'm sorry for the misfortune but it does sound like you lucked out...I'm happy to hear of the great build quality and durability

Quote

The 10P and 10D look so nice with the lettering on top and no red dot, bit its a personal thing. I just swapped my 10P for a 10D. It was a hard decision but to me the 'absence' of the rear LCD is my perfect digital camera. The P is lovely too. 24MP is a sweet spot.

I have a Visioflex 020 as its quite a useful addition to the D (es when using wide or long lenses (I have a 24 Summilux and a 90mm Elmarit)

I dropped my M9 Monochrom once, from standing height. It landed on the lens hood of the 35mm Summilux mk1 and broke the hood. The vertical alignment got knocked out of whack. 'Normal' use won't do that.

Quite get your idea of getting what you want and enjoying it from the start.

_NewtoLeica, Both the 10P and 10D are great looking cameras with a vintage vibe that I love. I may try the Visioflex in the future if it's something I feel that I need, hopefully I can learn to nail focusing without it. One reason I love to use lens hoods  is to protect the lens from an accidental drop...I'm happy you didn't break your lens.

[darkinners]

On 2/9/2021 at 10:28 AM, BrettW said:

Hi, this is my first post here and I’m looking for some first hand user experience.

I’m considering buying myself a new M10-P and 35mm summilux asph fle lens for my 40th birthday. I’m primarily a travel photographer with a particular interest in environmental portraits. My workhorse camera is currently a Sony A7iii and my street camera is a Fuji X100f.... the Leica will replace the latter.

A few questions I have about the camera:

-is the camera sensitive to knocks or bumps... does it need calibration often?

-I’m not interested in buying a visoflex, how difficult is it to nail focus at f1.4 with the view finder or live view?

-I don’t need more resolution than 24mp but should I consider the M10-R for the new sensor?

 

I think that about covers it, thanks for the help

 

-Brett

Welcome Brett! 

For your questions

 

- The M10-P and M10-R are very sturdy, unless you drop them on a concrete floor from height, otherwise knocks and bumps are fine, RF calibration only needed when it's needed. My M10 is almost 4 years old and the RF still very accurate without needing to re-calibrate. Even if you need to calibrate the VF, you can calibrate yourself with a hex allen wench (horizontal drift), vertical drift needs to take the top off though, better to let professional calibrate for you

 

- 1.4 is absolutely fine to nail focus with the VF, unless you have Astigmatism/Presbyopia and doesn't wear glasses,  I find even 1.2 is fine. F/1 and F/0.95 is where I draw the line. They are very difficult to nail focus with the VF. Of course focal length matters a lot, I was talking about 35mm and 50mm. For longer focal length such as 75mm 1.25, 90mm 1.5. would be even more difficult to nail the focus wide open with VF

 

-  The only thing M10-R excels to M10-P other than resolution is dynamic range and  base ISO, M10-R sensor have better DR and the base iso is 100, M10-P and M10 are all with base ISO 200.

Edited February 10, 2021 by darkinners

[BrettW]

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to post a follow up...I recently took possession of my new travel partner 😁📷

It's one fine piece of German engineering, thank you again for everyone's feedback...I'm looking forward to capturing portraits from around the world (hopefully sooner rather than later).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Lee S]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:50 PM, BrettW said:

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to post a follow up...I recently took possession of my new travel partner 😁📷

It's one fine piece of German engineering, thank you again for everyone's feedback...I'm looking forward to capturing portraits from around the world (hopefully sooner rather than later).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Congrats Brett, she looks beautiful. How are you finding the Leica experience so far?

Btw I also have a Sony A7III like you. I found a way to transform it from a cheapish feeling camera with no soul into something nice to hold and more quality feeling.

That was to buy a Voigtlander FE lens (40mm F1.2) All metal, fits the camera well and is a joy to use. That’s the combo that got me fully into Leica but I still love taking that combo out too. 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[BrettW]

10 hours ago, Lee S said:

Congrats Brett, she looks beautiful. How are you finding the Leica experience so far?

Btw I also have a Sony A7III like you. I found a way to transform it from a cheapish feeling camera with no soul into something nice to hold and more quality feeling.

That was to buy a Voigtlander FE lens (40mm F1.2) All metal, fits the camera well and is a joy to use. That’s the combo that got me fully into Leica but I still love taking that combo out too. 

 

Thank you,

Well I can tell you that the menu experience is welcome over the Sony's...lol. I'm really enjoying the camera, for the me form and function of the M10-P is what I enjoy the most. I'll be spending a great deal of time getting proficient and thinking about my settings before shooting.

I've read quite a few reviews of Voigtlander's lenses on the Sony body, perhaps I should give one of those lenses a try.

[rramesh]

Check the wrist strap. Too many metal bits that may cause rub marks on the body. Check out other posts and maybe replace with another that may prove to be more camera friendly.