SL2-S buffer is only 50 images in reality

[syd]

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Hello SL2-S users out there.

I have a question re my SL2-S. When I’m trying to shoot a burst of images, I note that I can only shoot 50 images before the shutter stops, and I have to wait until the buffer clears. I'm using a UHS-II v90 300MB/s card.

 

There is a counter that starts at 50 (label 3) in the screenshot, which counts down to zero. In the manual, this counter is called the "Remaining memory capacity”. So if I'm shooting on v high speed, after 2 secs the shutter stops. This is the same whether I've selected DNG or JPG. On JPG, the counter starts at 54. 4 more images.

 

The Tech Spec pdf on the Leica web site refers to “Buffer memory” as 4GB, >999 recordings. See 2nd screenshot.

I note that 50 DNG images of 44MB average size is 2.2GB, nowhere near the 4GB size that's referred to in the specs.

 

Can someone explain how the Buffer Memory relates to Remaining memory capacity? 

I would have thought that when Buffer memory says >999 it means that it doesn't stop at 50.

 

But in reality, I can only fire off a burst of 50 images.

Is there a setting I’m missing to remove this limit?

 

 

 

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Edited January 28, 2021 by syd

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[MediaFotografie]

the data sheet only means, SL2-S can write fast enough to SD Cards so it does not need the internal buffer; has nothing to do with the real 4 GB buffer inside the camera

[syd]

33 minutes ago, MediaFotografie said:

the data sheet only means, SL2-S can write fast enough to SD Cards so it does not need the internal buffer; has nothing to do with the real 4 GB buffer inside the camera

So what does the buffer memory do?

Quote

”The SL2-S can shoot those 25 frames per second continuously with a 4GB buffer, which means shooting in JPEG will never fill the buffer. In the camera’s specification sheet, shooting in DNG also results in the same specification: more than 999 straight images can be fired to a UHS-II card without ever slowing the camera’s write speed or filling the buffer”

Is an often repeated statement. Eg https://petapixel.com/2020/12/10/leica-sl2-s-is-an-action-focused-camera-24-6mp-bsi-sensor-25-fps/

This is clearly wrong. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by syd

[scott kirkpatrick]

The instruction manual just says that sequential shooting will slow down if the buffer fills.  These other statements are from promotional materials, and may be more ambitious.  I thought the claim that you can shoot without ever filling the buffer was for shooting in jpeg-only. And I can't imagine why 50 is a magic count-down number for buffer capacity.  Each image comes off the chip with 48 MB of data although leica sometimes (as in the SL[601]) compresses it by packing 14 bits instead of 16 bits for each pixel, and leaving no space in between.  But then to form the output file, with various small corrections, they may need to leave an equal amount of space empty as they process each frame.  So at 48 MB per frame, you could squeeze 83 frames into a 4 GB buffer.  If you need an equal amount of space to finish each frame, only 42 shots will fit.  At 25 frames per second, you are generating 1200 MB/sec of raw data, so that has to be reduced considerably to generate a data stream out of the buffer that your UHS II chip can absorb.  That's why only JPGs would be able to flow without interruption.

[syd]

Large Jpegs are also restricted to 50 per burst too. 
only Small JPEGS are 54 per burst. 
This is the same for 25, or 9 FPS. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by syd

[beewee]

I suspect the ‘50’ is just some arbitrary max number for display purposes, just like how the M8 LCD showed that the memory card has enough capacity for 999 images even though it has space for more images. Granted, the M8 literally only had 3 digits to display the counter but the same principle is true on the SL2-S in that, beyond a certain number, it doesn’t have much practical meaning to the user.

9 hours ago, syd said:

So what does the buffer memory do?

 

The buffer memory is used to temporarily store the images while the camera is writing those images to your SD card. If your SD card is very fast and the camera can write the images into the SD card as quickly or more quickly then you can take the images, then you can go on indefinitely until the card fills up or your camera runs out of power. If you have a slow memory card or you’re taking images with larger files where the camera’s ability to write the image from the buffer memory to the SD card is slower than the rate at which you’re filling the buffer by taking more images, then the buffer will eventually fill up and you can’t take more photos until a sufficient amount of space from the memory buffer is written to the SD card and cleared from the memory buffer enough to store the next image that you’re going to take.

[syd]

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2 minutes ago, beewee said:

I suspect the ‘50’ is just some arbitrary max number for display purposes, just like how the M8 LCD showed that the memory card has enough capacity for 999 images even though it has space for more images. Granted, the M8 literally only had 3 digits to display the counter but the same principle is true on the SL2-S in that, beyond a certain number, it doesn’t have much practical meaning to the user.

It's not arbitrary. I actually have the camera and my comments is what I am experiencing. The shutter stops after 50 images.

3 minutes ago, beewee said:

The buffer memory is used to temporarily store the images while the camera is writing those images to your SD card. If your SD card is very fast and the camera can write the images into the SD card as quickly or more quickly then you can take the images, then you can go on indefinitely until the card fills up or your camera runs out of power. If you have a slow memory card or you’re taking images with larger files where the camera’s ability to write the image from the buffer memory to the SD card is slower than the rate at which you’re filling the buffer by taking more images, then the buffer will eventually fill up and you can’t take more photos until a sufficient amount of space from the memory buffer is written to the SD card and cleared from the memory buffer enough to store the next image that you’re going to take.

I have the fastest UHS-II cards that's available. Clearly Leica has represented this to be UNLIMITED - and I will reach out to them to find out HOW they are able to reproduce this claim. I'm interested to see what other SL2-S owners have experienced and see if they too have a 50 image maximum, or HOW they can achieve an unlimited serial shooting. Well, more than 50 anyway.

[beewee]

14 minutes ago, syd said:

I have the fastest UHS-II cards that's available

May I ask what card you’re using? Have you tried formatting it in camera first?

I should get my camera in the next week or so.

[syd]

14 minutes ago, beewee said:

May I ask what card you’re using? Have you tried formatting it in camera first?

I should get my camera in the next week or so.

 

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It's not the cards. Both cards, same 50 image limit. There are no faster UHS-II cards.

It's a limitation designed into the camera. There is no way I can see that this body can shoot unlimited JPEGS (let along DNG) at 25 fps as marketed or advertised.

https://au.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/Leica-SL2-S/Details

Edited January 28, 2021 by syd

[beewee]

Perhaps you should reach out to your Leica dealer and/or Leica Support. Seems like you are convinced that this is a camera limitation and something not in control of any forum members here.

Would be curious to know their response.

[syd]

2 minutes ago, beewee said:

Perhaps you should reach out to your Leica dealer and/or Leica Support. Seems like you are convinced that this is a camera limitation and something not in control of any forum members here.

Would be curious to know their response.

I'm on it - have contacted Leica. But was curious about this compared to the SL2 - where it's apparently limited to 78 DNG per burst. Which is a lot more than the SL2-S in my experience.

[Mick H]

Per my testing:

Angelbird 128 GB V90 (single card only)
SL (601):  35 DNG

S1H:  123 RW2
The SL2-S performance interests me as the camera is a potential SL or S1H replacement for myself.  The marketing implies a deep buffer yet I have never seen a test.  Maybe another owner can confirm.

[syd]

17 minutes ago, Mick H said:

Per my testing:

Angelbird 128 GB V90 (single card only)
SL (601):  35 DNG

I get 50 DNG on silent shutter and then the shutter stops.

[Mick H]

5 hours ago, syd said:

I get 50 DNG on silent shutter and then the shutter stops.

My testing was with mechanical shutter at highest frame rate.  Have you tried to fill the buffer on your SL2-S with the mechanical shutter?  If so, how many DNGs?

[scott kirkpatrick]

OK, I tried filling the buffer with high speed shots.  SL2S, with SL SC 50 mm lens, running in MF, ISO 100, f/2.0 1/160 sec.

The card used was SanDik UHS ii, 300 MB/s

I'm sitting at my desk, shooting the Google stopwatch, which displays in hundredths of a second.

First with the ultra high speed shutter (electronic), I get 50 shots in the first two seconds, with intervals showing as .04, sometimes .03, or .05.    The 51st shot takes .09 secs, then .13, .11, .13, .12   so it hasn't stopped, but slows to 8 shots per second when there are 50 shots in the buffer

With the fastest mechanical shutter, I got just over 70 shots before i tslowed down from 8 shots per second to 4-5 shots per second.

 

That's pretty much what the manual says it should do.

Edited February 2, 2021 by scott kirkpatrick

[syd]

Yep, I get around 60-65 on mechanical.

It's a far cry from the marketing spiel. And bears no resemblance to a 4GB buffer.

[beewee]

@syd when you say the shutters stops, does it stop shooting even with the shutter button held down or does it just slow down? I get the sense from what you’re describing that the camera just stops completely after holding the shutter down for 50-70 shots. But from Scott’s description, the camera keeps going just at a slightly reduced pace.

Edited February 2, 2021 by beewee

[syd]

50 minutes ago, beewee said:

@syd when you say the shutters stops, does it stop shooting even with the shutter button held down or does it just slow down? I get the sense from what you’re describing that the camera just stops completely after holding the shutter down for 50-70 shots. But from Scott’s description, the camera keeps going just at a slightly reduced pace.

If I'm shooting DNG, a sequence at 20fps, I keep the finger on the shutter, and after 50 images, it stops firing.

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

Just shoot video and pull frames. Same thing. Not really photography though.

Gordon

[scott kirkpatrick]

BTW,  as each 48 Mytes of raw image comes out of the chip and flows into the buffer, the processing software needs to reserve some amount of storage in which to construct the finished DNG file.  The simplest, fastest, safest  code, will reserve an equal amount of storage for each image into which to place the output, rather than try to squeeze the finished image in on top of the initial data.  So 4 GB filling up with 50 images created in 2 seconds just implies that the camera needs to set 80 MB aside for each image, not just 48 MB.