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Q2M double vision bokeh


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If you look at the first sample image on this page you can see a strange effect in the bokeh resembling double vision:

https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/leica_q2_monochrom_review/sample_images

Look at the window frames top left. I can't see this happening elsewhere. Anyone know what this is?

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actually I see it with the window on the right too...and other spots too, like the mirrors.

Not sure if I would call it bokeh, but there is indeed a double image going on - like a ghost/shadow projection.

The second shot is not as pronounced, but has some sort of extend blurred edge more visible in the fence

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It is called ni-sen bokeh and is caused by over-corrected spherical aberration, which is sometimes needed to compensate for chromatic aberration. Lenses known to show the effect are for instance the Summicron 50 and most tele-zoom lenses. Notorious for a huge amount is the Summarit 50/1.5, in fact all Xenon-based designs.

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  • 6 months later...
On 1/26/2021 at 12:14 AM, PaulJohn said:

If you look at the first sample image on this page you can see a strange effect in the bokeh resembling double vision:

https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/leica_q2_monochrom_review/sample_images

Look at the window frames top left. I can't see this happening elsewhere. Anyone know what this is?

Hi there,

I do have the same experience with my Q2, not with all pics, but when shooting wide open, like on this image below. The "nisen-bokeh" is quite apparent around the cliff. To me this is actually quite disturbing as it looks really artificial to me. Not sure if this is something I'd expect from such a high quality camera-lens combo. Or am I too picky? I haven't experienced this before with any of my other previous or current Leica camera and lens combos, only with the Q2 so far.

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13 minutes ago, peepingpok said:

I haven't experienced this before with any of my other previous or current Leica camera and lens combos,

Review your images, many Leica lenses (and all brands) will produce double contour bokeh under certain conditions. I will admit that this sample is unpleasantly pronounced, though.

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2 hours ago, peepingpok said:

Hi there,

I do have the same experience with my Q2, not with all pics, but when shooting wide open, like on this image below. The "nisen-bokeh" is quite apparent around the cliff. To me this is actually quite disturbing as it looks really artificial to me. Not sure if this is something I'd expect from such a high quality camera-lens combo. Or am I too picky? I haven't experienced this before with any of my other previous or current Leica camera and lens combos, only with the Q2 so far.

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Have you introduced that with pp? is it present on the unprocessed raw? I've seen that when trying to pull back blown highlights. Possibly caused by hue adjustments too?

Edited by PaulJohn
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5 hours ago, PaulJohn said:

Have you introduced that with pp? is it present on the unprocessed raw? I've seen that when trying to pull back blown highlights. Possibly caused by hue adjustments too?

That is correct, I did pull back highlights. I may need to be more gentle with that it seems. 

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  • 1 year later...

Bit of a necro post (apologies), but still relevant I hope as it's still a very widely used camera...

While this looks like nisen-boken as Jaap suggested, I think it only really happens to me (or at least, the most aggressive versions of it) when using the electronic shutter (above 1/2000th), so it may be an electronic artefact that's firmware fixable, rather than an lens artefact. 

More testing is probably required, but the OPs photo example also happens to be 1/2500 too....

Edited by ralphh
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Get some out of focus foliage in your images and you should find it pretty fast.  I see it regularly.  Here's todays example - certainly not the worst ever, just some regular rough-looking bokeh out of the Q2 - my daughter on the day home from school this afternoon (look to the right of my daughter in line with her shoulders - not sure if it comes across properly at lower resolutions, but it's certainty a bit 'sharp' in the bokeh, even downsized, but at the original res it's clearly nisin-looking lined.  edit: I'll post a crop too.)

 

 

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Edited by ralphh
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Lovely photo. The issue is not noticeable in the main image even when viewed full screen on my 27 inch retina whereas you can see it on the original example without zooming in. I've managed to find it on one of my photos now but it's not easy to find thankfully.

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10 hours ago, ralphh said:

Bit of a necro post (apologies), but still relevant I hope as it's still a very widely used camera...

While this looks like nisen-boken as Jaap suggested, I think it only really happens to me (or at least, the most aggressive versions of it) when using the electronic shutter (above 1/2000th), so it may be an electronic artefact that's firmware fixable, rather than an lens artefact. 

More testing is probably required, but the OPs photo example also happens to be 1/2500 too....

That could be it.  After thousands of photos I've never experienced this...but because I shoot in manual exposure I never go above 1/1000.

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I regularly shoot wide open in daylight for DoF reasons, so I'm constantly using it around or above 1/2000.

It may also be that I wide open coincides with 1/2000 and it's wide open that causes it, not the electronic shutter.

I'll put the camera on a tripod and find out at some point soon and then post back.

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