Work arounds for heavy skin tone saturations in SL2

[jacksbenjamin]

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Hi all, wanted to get your thoughts / experiences on the SL2's color science and its heavy skin tone saturations, straight out of camera. 

I love my SL2 and have shot multitudes of Stetson campaigns and others on it however I always see super saturated skin tones, straight out of camera when shot on Leica M glass or Sigma L lenses. Even when shooting in Natural profile with -2 SAT, -2 Contrast, and -2 Sharpness. Does anyone else experience this and do you have any work arounds for this? I am firmware 2.0 

In contrast, when I shoot on my Leica M10R skin tones are beautiful right out of the gate and need much less grading then what I do for the SL2.

You can see graded stetson work here > http://www.ben-jacks.com/stills#/stetsonheritage/

I have added a non graded scout photo below to show the heavy orange I see commonly.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated! 

Ben Jacks // http://www.ben-jacks.com

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[Slender]

Strange... used to be a big issue for me with former M9 system, but I have been very happy with skintones on the SL2... his arms looks fine.... maybe he was really a bit flushed, no?

Also in the shade with so much foillage if I were on a pro shoot in such condition, I would be wary of Auto WB and use a grey card (or a white sheet of paper if in a pinch...) to manually set the WB / middle grey close to his face. Leica historically favors the red channel (kodachrome style) with many of its digital cameras, but nothing un-controla-ble in post... especially with new R-G & B split-grading channels in LR or the color tools in C1 (not familiar with the latter yet).

Awesome work anyway! Do you use the SL2 a lot otherwise for this type of shoot?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Slender

[paul.bridges.3388]

I noticed same with JPGs into LR when I first got my Q2. Red was oversaturated in the skintone. The issue was seemingly resolved with an update to LR. I'm now seeing the exact same with my new SL2-S and assume it to need a LR update.

[jacksbenjamin]

Thanks for the thoughts @Slender and kind words on the work! It’s insightful to hear about Leica’s history with the red channel. I actively use LR for grading but I will be testing C1 to see if it’s more refined. To answer your question - yes I shoot most of my campaigns on the SL2 right now; with some M10R, paired with ProFoto B10+ and B1X

thank you @paul.bridges.3388 For your insight as well, perhaps LR will have a better update soon! 
 

I would say globally it would be amazing if the Leica OS would also more refinement in contrast and saturation on the SL2 would be great

[Stuart Richardson]

C1 Has more neutral profiles for the SL2 and especially the S3 (which is a similar sensor to the M10R), so I would imagine you might find better results. They also now offer their ProStandard profiles which are marketed as having better skintones, so they sound like they might be up your alley. My experience of the color with the S3 in Lightroom and C1 is that it is like using a different camera. Adobe very much as a "look" that they are applying, and C1 is much more neutral and accurate in reproducing a color chart. I prefer the latter, but tastes vary.

If you are looking to use in-camera jpegs to send to an art director or something like that, I am not sure there are really any more options than what you have already tried. Leica used to allow you to choose which color space were used for the jpegs, but I cannot find that option in the SL2. My guess is that your best option for quick jpegs would be to shoot RAW and then apply a preset in Lightroom or C1 to your images in order to generate quick jpegs, but perhaps that does not work for your workflow.

[otto.f]

12 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

C1 is much more neutral and accurate in reproducing a color chart. I

Does that also count for M10 and SL files, that you know? Or did C1 not touch these profiles for version 21?

[Stuart Richardson]

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I am not totally sure. I think the updated profiles, prostandard profiles, and support were only for the SL2 and S3, but maybe the M's were already supported?

[otto.f]

13 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I am not totally sure. I think the updated profiles, prostandard profiles, and support were only for the SL2 and S3, but maybe the M's were already supported?

Yes they were, but I couldn't get them neutral enough to my taste. I'm trying 21 now to see if I can see difference with the new color engine

Edited January 21, 2021 by otto.f

[Potomachuck]

On 1/20/2021 at 9:08 PM, jacksbenjamin said:

SL2 right now; with some M10R, paired with ProFoto B10

Off topic, but how are you triggering the B10 with the Leica? I have the Canon version of the Air Connect but would like a path to use my B10 with My m10r and Q2 as well.  
 

nice Stetson campaign.  

[jacksbenjamin]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:22 AM, Potomachuck said:

Off topic, but how are you triggering the B10 with the Leica? I have the Canon version of the Air Connect but would like a path to use my B10 with My m10r and Q2 as well.  
 

nice Stetson campaign.  

@Potomachuck thanks for the kinds words! I use the universal Pro foto trigger, works great with leicas! see here - https://www.adorama.com/pp701301.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoeCBhCTARIsAOfpKxjNWe2gAg45Ivq-nBNTgLiAC0TCRYaaUYiWyZmqd09LRd5vbdywG0kaAgKxEALw_wcB&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoeCBhCTARIsAOfpKxjNWe2gAg45Ivq-nBNTgLiAC0TCRYaaUYiWyZmqd09LRd5vbdywG0kaAgKxEALw_wcB&utm_source=adl-gbase-p 

[brembeck43]

Use the Skintone Tool in C1 it works magic!

 

[Potomachuck]

On 3/5/2021 at 4:59 PM, jacksbenjamin said:

@Potomachuck thanks for the kinds words! I use the universal Pro foto trigger, works great with leicas! see here - https://www.adorama.com/pp701301.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoeCBhCTARIsAOfpKxjNWe2gAg45Ivq-nBNTgLiAC0TCRYaaUYiWyZmqd09LRd5vbdywG0kaAgKxEALw_wcB&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoeCBhCTARIsAOfpKxjNWe2gAg45Ivq-nBNTgLiAC0TCRYaaUYiWyZmqd09LRd5vbdywG0kaAgKxEALw_wcB&utm_source=adl-gbase-p 

Thanks. In the end I bought one of the $89.00 Chinese knock offs as a back up to the Profoto-Canon One that does TTL.  That way I can use one on my Q2 for leaf shutter sync at higher speeds.   

[MarkinVan]

Any Lightroom solutions?

[D_MCM]

On 3/5/2021 at 1:59 PM, jacksbenjamin said:

@Potomachuck thanks for the kinds words! I use the universal Pro foto trigger, works great with leicas! see here - https://www.adorama.com/pp701301.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoeCBhCTARIsAOfpKxjNWe2gAg45Ivq-nBNTgLiAC0TCRYaaUYiWyZmqd09LRd5vbdywG0kaAgKxEALw_wcB&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoeCBhCTARIsAOfpKxjNWe2gAg45Ivq-nBNTgLiAC0TCRYaaUYiWyZmqd09LRd5vbdywG0kaAgKxEALw_wcB&utm_source=adl-gbase-p 

hi @jacksbenjamin!  long time brother.  your work looks beautiful as always.

again, off topic from the original post but is there a reason you went with this trigger rather than a version of the air remote TTL (other than TTL and HSS don't currently function)?  i'm trying to find the best solution to an SL2/B1X combo.  

 

[jacksbenjamin]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:31 PM, D_MCM said:

hi @jacksbenjamin!  long time brother.  your work looks beautiful as always.

again, off topic from the original post but is there a reason you went with this trigger rather than a version of the air remote TTL (other than TTL and HSS don't currently function)?  i'm trying to find the best solution to an SL2/B1X combo.  

 

Brother @D_MCM

Wonderful to see you here and thanks for the kind words! It was my understanding that trigger I referenced was universal and did not want to risk a trigger with TTL knowing it would not work with Leica and possibly making it incompatible with the Sl2, but if the one you are looking at says universal then perhaps it works?!

hope you are doing very well and rocking lots of great shoots  

Edited May 20, 2021 by jacksbenjamin

[Paul2660]

I have a question on profiles for the SL2, mainly LR.  

All I can see with LR/ACR are the stock Adobe profiles, as Adobe doesn't have a dedicated Lecia series of profiles for the SL2 or Q2, like it does for Nikon cameras or Canon.  Is there a way to load a different camera profile in LR/ACR via a browsing?  I have not figured out a way for this. 

C1 does have a dedicated profile for the Leica's I use and I tend to start there first, however from my experience, with both LR and C1, C1 doesn't have the same ability to capture finer details in landscape shots, and for sure does less on the Multi shot images (which I can get back with 3rd party sharpening), but LR seems to get a better first attempt many times.  I just don't find I prefer the stock Adobe dng profiles in LR for the Lecia raws, and currently that's all I can use. 

Paul 

[thighslapper]

A bit late in the day ..... the M.240 had the same issues with red handling and it was eventually sorted by Leica with a WB change in firmware a new LR default profile from Adobe. 

As mentioned above ..... any longtime Leica user will recall 'red channel' issues with a number of their cameras when first released.  

[Photoworks]

I find Capture one has much better profiles.

bu you can make a camera profile in camera and save it to use it in Lightroom.

x-rite has a profiles, but you need to make a profile to every lighting condition, and most of the time it is to strong in my view.

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