Really, new cheap(er) film M in 2021 ?

[adan]

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5 hours ago, 250swb said:

Maybe they'll call it a 'Bessa'?

Possibly.

The Cosina/Voigtlander Bessas are themselves an adaptation of a cheap Cosina SLR body (the CT-1). Which was also made with re-branded casings for Nikon, Canon, Olympus and others (Nikon FM-10, Canon T60, OM-2000, etc.) as those companies became more and more distracted by their digital lines, and found it harder and harder to make an entry-level film camera economically.

Same shutter, wind mechanism, metering in all of them - only the skin-deep cosmetics and names (and lens mounts) were different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosina_CT-1

In the Bessas, of course, Cosina just left out all the SLR stuff (mirror/groundglass/prism). Eventually adding a rangefinder (but not at first - the original Bessa-L (1999) had no focus/viewing system, except as accessories).

https://www.cameraquest.com/voigtbl.htm

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The M-A is already about as simple a clockwork film M as possible. It'll be interesting to see how Leica chooses to make a cheaper version (if real).

Edited January 1, 2021 by adan

[BradS]

I predict “Made in Portugal” versions of the existing MA and MP selling at a 10% discount. 

If so, I’d like to see them return to the M6 style film advance lever and rewind knob. I’d be interested in something like revival of the non-TTL M6. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by BradS

[logan2z]

43 minutes ago, BradS said:

I predict “Made in Portugal” versions of the existing MA and MP selling at a 10% discount. 

I hope it's more than that (if it's anything at all).  I don't think a 10% discount on the current M-A/MP is going to do anything to drive sales - someone seriously considering buying the $5K M-A/MP is likely going to buy with or without the $500 discount.  

I assume the goal of a new camera would be to bring in buyers who could not previously afford a new Leica film camera.  In order to do that, I think the camera would have to be somewhere in the $3K range (or less) for it to make any sense at all.  At that price point I can see someone thinking about getting into a Leica film camera leaning heavily towards a new camera with a warranty instead of a similarly-priced old camera without.  That's money in Leica's pocket, rather than losing out to a sale on the used market.

Edited January 1, 2021 by logan2z

[BradS]

22 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I hope it's more than that (if it's anything at all).  I don't think a 10% discount on the current M-A/MP is going to do anything to drive sales - someone seriously considering buying the $5K M-A/MP is likely going to buy with or without the $500 discount.  

I assume the goal of a new camera would be to bring in buyers who could not previously afford a new Leica film camera.  In order to do that, I think the camera would have to be somewhere in the $3K range (or less) for it to make any sense at all.  At that price point I can see someone thinking about getting into a Leica film camera leaning heavily towards a new camera with a warranty instead of a similarly-priced old camera without.  That's money in Leica's pocket, rather than losing out to a sale on the used market.

Yeah, I strongly agree...but that's much too sensible . Besides, It seems as though Leica are presently constrained by the inability to make their current film cameras in sufficient quantity (and quality?) to meet existing demand. So, based upon what Leica have done recently with the M-mount lenses, the Made in Portugal at a (measly) 10% discount seems most likely. Hmmm, on the other hand, Leica may be artificially holding back supply (producing many fewer than they are capable of) in order to prop up prices. Demand seems strong and increasing.

Edited January 1, 2021 by BradS

[Matlock]

16 hours ago, nicci78 said:

 

Leica could setup a special workshop in Portugal to avoid US tariffs. Hence a potentially cheaper M film cameras. But will you be ok to buy a made in Portugal ones ? 

Most Leica production is centred in Portugal anyway, only final assembly and boxing takes place in Wetzler. Also the US tariffs are just that, US tariffs, and would have no effect for the rest of the world.

 

[Fontan]

Even if it turns out to be “cheap,” having to spend money on films and developing will easily turn it into an expensive endeavor very quickly, no?

[nicci78]

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1 hour ago, Matlock said:

Most Leica production is centred in Portugal anyway, only final assembly and boxing takes place in Wetzler. Also the US tariffs are just that, US tariffs, and would have no effect for the rest of the world.

 

MP and M-A are 100% build at Wetzlar. Each camera is build by only one person from the beginning to the end. 
it is totally different than digital cameras assembled in Wetzlar from parts made in Portugal. 
 

Transferring the know how to Portuguese select workers won’t be that easy. 

[LocalHero1953]

If this becomes a reality, I am sure it will be because Leica, like many of us, have watched the price of M2-M6 bodies increase over the last decade. I can imagine them saying "we'd like a piece of that".

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

MP and M-A are 100% build at Wetzlar. Each camera is build by only one person from the beginning to the end. 
it is totally different than digital cameras assembled in Wetzlar from parts made in Portugal. 
 

Transferring the know how to Portuguese select workers won’t be that easy. 

Really? Leica would seem to think otherwise and they should know.

"Leica Portugal continues the tradition of crafting analog Leica cameras: M7, M-P and M-A. M7 was introduced in 2002 with an electronic shutter. M-P came in 2003 with mechanical exposure control, improved viewfinder, no logo on front. M-A (Typ 127) arrived in 2014 as a totally mechanical camera—no light meter."

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Edited January 2, 2021 by Matlock

[wattsy]

There have ben rumours for a while about a reissue M6. This new rumour might be a variation on that one. If there is any truth to it, I think, as others have said, "cheaper" needs to be more than a 10% reduction to be a meaningful difference.

Leica will be aware of the demand for film bodies and will have seen how used prices for the M6 have rocketed in recent years. However, I suspect that Leica may have capacity problems in producing the MP and M-A in greater numbers and might have been looking at ways of simplifying the production of a film camera and this, in turn, may have opened up the possibility of making a body at a cheaper price point than £4000. This could involve switching from a mechanical cloth shutter to a shutter unit like the one in the Bessa (mechanically cocked but using metal blades), using different materials (perhaps an aluminium top plate like the one on the M typ 262?) and/or – most radically – outsourcing part of the production outside Europe?

Edited January 2, 2021 by wattsy

[CosmoM3]

This is a way for Leica to tap into the used Leica M6 market because they're not making any money on the second hand market

[plasticman]

4 hours ago, Fontan said:

Even if it turns out to be “cheap,” having to spend money on films and developing will easily turn it into an expensive endeavor very quickly, no?

This sort of comment has been done to death by now. Makes me wonder why people who make it insist on contributing their predictable negativity - even on a forum where the cheapest digital Leica M would buy film (for an average user) for probably around a decade, if not longer.

[Matlock]

2 hours ago, CosmoM3 said:

This is a way for Leica to tap into the used Leica M6 market because they're not making any money on the second hand market

They must be making some money, otherwise they wouldn't sell second hand/refurbished and demo cameras.

[earleygallery]

4 hours ago, wattsy said:

and/or – most radically – outsourcing part of the production outside Europe?

They are opening a factory in the UK??

[earleygallery]

7 hours ago, Fontan said:

Even if it turns out to be “cheap,” having to spend money on films and developing will easily turn it into an expensive endeavor very quickly, no?

This is the Leica forum old chap, people are happy to spend £500 on a damn lens hood!!!

[logan2z]

53 minutes ago, Steven said:

Im sorry for the newbie question but can someone explain to me the differences between the MP and the MA? And if you still have time, the M7... ? Thanks in advance. 

The MP is the M-A with a built-in meter. 

[Matlock]

51 minutes ago, Steven said:

Never mind, I think I got it. 

MA is the new M6?

MP is the new M7? 

 

MA has no meter, MP has meter, M7 has electronically controlled shutter with aperture priority auto exposure available (my favourite M film camera).

 

[Matlock]

4 minutes ago, Steven said:

Thanks. But does this mean that the MP has no Aperture priority mode ? Struggling to understand the difference between the m7 and the Mp. 

 

The MP is a purely manual camera with a built in meter, like the M6. The M7 can be used in AP auto or manual, the MP only manual.

[a.noctilux]

18 minutes ago, Steven said:

Thanks. But does this mean that the MP has no Aperture priority mode ? Struggling to understand the difference between the m7 and the Mp. 

 

To simplify ...

Now Leica "offer for sale new" film camera  MP which has lightmeter for manual setting guided by the LED in viewfinder, shutter setting is manual and of course aperture,

second is M-A which has NO lightmeter at all, and everything else is "same" as MP.

 

Not anymore buyable "new" M7 was auto, the camera can choose the shutter speed when set in "A".

The electronic of M7 could not be sourced, (I think) or not so many bought so Leica ended manufacturing M7, a couple of years back.

in Wiki, M7

MP

M-A

Edited January 2, 2021 by a.noctilux

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Matlock]

Just now, Steven said:

Understood. Thanks so much. In that case, that makes the m7 my favourite Film M. 

i better get one soon because they’re costing more and more. 

A very good choice Steven but make sure that it has been serviced and the DX code reader updated to optical. It is a great camera.