M10-R Dust Detection feature working?

[roverover]

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Have any M10-R users found a way to get the Dust Detection feature to work reliably?  It might be non-essential
but I did find an occasional check to be helpful and could always get it to work on my M240 and M10 models.

After spending quite bit of time experimenting today, I could not find a way to get the feature to work reliably on my M10-R.
I was only able to get it to work 2 or 3 times out of about 100 attempts and this was basically futile. It's not helpful
if you can't check it, make a cleaning effort and then re-check it.

Perhaps this is an issue that Leica might be able to address in a future firmware update.
Anyone have better luck with this on their M10-R or might this issue be unique to my camera?

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by roverover

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[astrostl]

What does "working" mean? Functioning at all, or getting desired results?

I get my best results by opening a blank Word document on my computer, stopping down to the max, setting to base ISO, focusing at infinity, and taking a 1s shot at point-blank range.

[roverover]

35 minutes ago, astrostl said:

What does "working" mean? Functioning at all, or getting desired results?

I get my best results by opening a blank Word document on my computer, stopping down to the max, setting to base ISO, focusing at infinity, and taking a 1s shot at point-blank range.

I've never had issues with Dust Detection on the other M cameras I mentioned having, and I too have used techniques as you've described as well. None of these work on my M10-R.

I consider this feature not workings as it was not possible to get any reliable or any reputable results, about 97 out of 100 attempts provided the "Image Inhomogeneous" message, and I experimented with 3 deferent lenses as well as very bright and other backgrounds too.

If You are using an M10-R and not experiencing these results, perhaps I have an M10-R with an issue, but I will wait to see of other M10-R users chime in about this. 

[astrostl]

Base M10 here. That does sound - odd! Hoping you get a speedy resolution.

[roverover]

Just now, astrostl said:

Base M10 here. That does sound - odd! Hoping you get a speedy resolution.

OK got it. I was specifically reaching out to M10 R users with the thread, but thank you for checking in.

 

[Hey You]

I also cannot get dust detection to work.  I posted about the same issue on July 23rd, and received no reply.  Here is that earlier post :-

Like others, I am delighted with the M10-R.  I also proudly/humbly take pride in finding an area where the M10-R falls short relative to the M10.  It is - drumroll! - Dust Detection.  The reason I tried the camera’s Dust Detection capabilities is not because I am anal and think this is the best use for an M10-R.  Rather, it is because Jaapv once posted that a new camera’s shutter curtain may shed oil, specks and suchlike onto the sensor when first used.  I decided to check how clean the sensor was, and to monitor if it changed.

Dust detection on the M10 was simple.  It involved finding any smooth and homogeneous surface and taking a defocussed image of it.  Given its significant increase in resolution, the M10-R is more likely than the M10 to see minute irregularities in the image as dust on the sensor.  Consequently it seems to have more rigorous dust detection logic and is more demanding of dust detection images.  Whenever I found a surface which seemed uniform and uniformly lit, I took a defocussed Dust Detection image.  I have yet to take an image which does not yield the warning “image inhomogeneous.”  I would be interested in learning whether other M10-R users have had more success than I have had.

The M10-R may have advanced dust detection capabilities, but they are useless if they reject every  test image.  This is trivial and does not detract from my delight in the camera, but is an area where Leica could do some work.  Perhaps two grades of dust detection - Medium and High?

[Rob L]

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"I get my best results by opening a blank Word document on my computer, stopping down to the max, setting to base ISO, focusing at infinity, and taking a 1s shot at point-blank range."

This is how I've always done it with all my digital cameras, except I don't bother to take an image, just use live view and check the screen. Takes about two seconds.

[Hey You]

I tried it, several times, with the same result : "Image inhomogeneous."

[FDS]

I had the same problem when initially trying to check the sensor for dust on white walls indoors as I have done consistently successfully with M10P and M10M.   After repeatedly getting the 'Image Inhomogeneous' message I then tried using a section of uniformly bright sky with a 135 lens at closest focusing distance at f22 and it now works consistently well.  

Apparently, the M10R may simply need brighter light to do the dust detection test.

[marcg]

If you want to see dust on your sensor, fit a pinhole lens – about F122 or more – take a picture.

Be ready to be horrified – be afraid, very afraid.

[roverover]

1 hour ago, Rob L said:

"I get my best results by opening a blank Word document on my computer, stopping down to the max, setting to base ISO, focusing at infinity, and taking a 1s shot at point-blank range."

This is how I've always done it with all my digital cameras, except I don't bother to take an image, just use live view and check the screen. Takes about two seconds.

OK I get it. You are bypassing the Dust Detection feature. It sounds like a reasonable work-around, THANKS.
I am still curious though why the feature worked on my M240 and M10 but NOT on my M10-R.
Apparently, other M10-R users are having the same experience, so there is something going on with it.

[roverover]

1 hour ago, FDS said:

I had the same problem when initially trying to check the sensor for dust on white walls indoors as I have done consistently successfully with M10P and M10M.   After repeatedly getting the 'Image Inhomogeneous' message I then tried using a section of uniformly bright sky with a 135 lens at closest focusing distance at f22 and it now works consistently well.  

Apparently, the M10R may simply need brighter light to do the dust detection test.

Thanks. When I discovered that i couldn't get the feature to work as expected, I tried fully open and fully closed (as suggested by Leica) apertures as well as everything in between.
I also tried a Bright sky and Bright white illuminated backgrounds, such as a computer screen and as a test, with my lens cap on too, but I was not able to get it functioning.
I attempted tests with a 35, 50 and 90mm lenses but none were providing success. I will try my 135mm as You did, perhaps that is the path to victory, although it seems to me that
the feature should work as described and according to all printed material that I could find in any of my manuals, Leica doesn't dictate better or worse test results using any special techniques or any particular wide or tele lens, but I am  happy to know you found a workaround too. I will test a 135 later today and report back.
 

[dkmoore]

22 hours ago, roverover said:

Thanks. When I discovered that i couldn't get the feature to work as expected, I tried fully open and fully closed (as suggested by Leica) apertures as well as everything in between.
I also tried a Bright sky and Bright white illuminated backgrounds, such as a computer screen and as a test, with my lens cap on too, but I was not able to get it functioning.
I attempted tests with a 35, 50 and 90mm lenses but none were providing success. I will try my 135mm as You did, perhaps that is the path to victory, although it seems to me that
the feature should work as described and according to all printed material that I could find in any of my manuals, Leica doesn't dictate better or worse test results using any special techniques or any particular wide or tele lens, but I am  happy to know you found a workaround too. I will test a 135 later today and report back.
 

The dust detection works 100% of the time for me and my M10R. I just tried it now to make sure. I also take no special precautions when doing the following:

1. Set aperture to f11 or f16 

2. lens at infinity or at least 10ft +
3. select dust detection 

4. hold the camera about 1 foot away from whitish color wall (lights on in room)

5. take picture 

Make sure you have latest firmware uploaded just in case. Good luck. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by dkmoore

[Hey You]

Followed your advice, several times.  "Image inhomogeneous."

[roverover]

1 hour ago, dkmoore said:

The dust detection works 100% of the time for me and my M10R. I just tried it now to make sure. I also take no special precautions when doing the following:

1. Set aperture to f11 or f16 

2. lens at infinity or at least 10ft +
3. select dust detection 

4. hold the camera about 1 foot away from whitish color wall (lights on in room)

5. take picture 

Make sure you have latest firmware uploaded just in case. Good luck. 

Thanks for posting your results, i have used that and many other methods through experimentation, as i have in the past with other M cameras, but i am not getting it to work on my M10-R and do have the latest firmware as well.

Since you are getting different (and better) results, the problem might be isolated to affect only some of the production runs. It will become more clear if it is isolated or widespread if more users post about it.

[roverover]

On 12/31/2020 at 7:45 AM, FDS said:

I had the same problem when initially trying to check the sensor for dust on white walls indoors as I have done consistently successfully with M10P and M10M.   After repeatedly getting the 'Image Inhomogeneous' message I then tried using a section of uniformly bright sky with a 135 lens at closest focusing distance at f22 and it now works consistently well.  

Apparently, the M10R may simply need brighter light to do the dust detection test.

I wanted to follow up. I attempted some tests with my 135 mm lens. I was able to get it to work on "occasion," perhaps a little more than with other lenses, maybe 1 out of 40 or 50 tries, but it wasn't a repeatable process and seemed random.
I appreciated this function on other M's as it was good for an occasional sensor check, but i also found it helpful for finding dust on lenses where i couldn't as easily see the rear lens elements, like the 135 lens where it's far deeper inside the tube.

If this is widespread, I'm curious if it can be adjusted in a future firmware update. I wouldn't send my camera in because of this and hoping i never have to send it in for service.
This is a great M camera in my opinion and the issue is minor, but slightly annoying.

[pedaes]

12 minutes ago, roverover said:

1 out of 40

What message do you get when it dosn't work? Mine works every time unless it isn't happy with the surface being exposed and says so.

I would agree with FDS that photographing a plain sky slightly underexposed and wacking the monitor image up to x300% gives a more accurate result anyway.

Are you sure it will detect dust on the rear element of a lens? In any event, pretty easy to use a blower and a lens brush!

Edited January 1, 2021 by pedaes

[roverover]

1 minute ago, pedaes said:

What message do you get? Mine works every time unless it isn't happy with the surface being exposed and says so.

Are you sure it will detect dust on the rear element of a lens? In any event, pretty easy to use a blower and a lens brush!

I continually get the  "Image Inhomogeneous" message and No image is produced.
Also, the dust particles that i have seen on my other  M cameras was predominately dust on the lenses and not always on the sensor based on my findings.

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[jdlaing]

43 minutes ago, roverover said:

I continually get the  "Image Inhomogeneous" message and No image is produced.
Also, the dust particles that i have seen on my other  M cameras was predominately dust on the lenses and not always on the sensor based on my findings.

What are you using for a background?

[roverover]

12 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

What are you using for a background?

As stated in some of the previous posts, I too have been experimenting with Bright Computer screens, Bright skies, Bright White walls both lit and unlit, TV screen images and Black backgrounds were tested too. I have also used a moving screensaver background on my computer.
So, once I discovered it wasn't functioning as my previous M camera's did, I have  been experimenting with different lenses too. So far, and based on several posts, my M10-R is not
the only on where this function isn't working as expected. Hearing about more use experiences might be helpful.

Is YOURS working?