Jono Slack Review: Leica SL2-S

[scott kirkpatrick]

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There is new information on the leica-camera.com site , describing possible video rates and encodings and color sampling.  Too much, and it's not clear if both 25 nd 30 HZ are available in all regions, or which capabilities are in the first shipped firmware, which come in 2021, but here goes:

MOV C4K: 59,94 B/s, 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD), 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 150Mbps MOV C4K: 50 B/s, 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD), 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 150Mbps MOV C4K: 29,97 B/s, 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 400Mbps MOV C4K: 25 B/s, 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 400Mbps MOV C4K: 24 B/s, 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 400 Mbps MOV 4K: 59,94 B/s, 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD), 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 150 Mbps MOV 4K:50 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD), 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 150 Mbps MOV 4K:29,97 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 400 Mbps MOV 4K:25 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 400 Mbps MOV 4K:23,98 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 400 Mbps MOV FHD: 180 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MOV FHD:150 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MOV FHD:120 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MOV FHD:100 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 MbpsMOV FHD:59,94 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 200 Mbps MOV FHD:50 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 200 Mbps MOV FHD:29,97 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 200 Mbps MOV FHD:25 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 200 Mbps MOV FHD:23,98 B/s 4:2:2 / 10 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, ALL-I, 200 Mbps MP4 4K: 59,94 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 150Mbps MP4 4K: 50 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 150Mbps MP4 4K: 29,97 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 100 Mbps MP4 4K: 25 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 100 Mbps MP4 4K: 23,98 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 100 Mbps MP4 FHD: 180 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MP4 FHD:150 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MP4 FHD:120 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MP4 FHD:100 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MP4 FHD:59,94 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 28 Mbps MP4 FHD:50 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 28 Mbps MP4 FHD:29,97 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MP4 FHD:25 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 20 Mbps MP4 FHD:23,98 B/s 4:2:0 / 8 Bit (SD & HDMI), 35mm & APS-C, H.264, Long GOP, 24 Mbps

It will be fun to see what these all look like.

Edit:  the quickstart guide and the instruction manual are online now.  There is a link to the package of LUTs but it gives a 403 error, so the file hasn't been posted quite yet.

edit2:  the LUTs are posted now.  No instructions for the novice on what they do and how to use them. but I guess the instruction manual has that.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

Another intriguing surprise.  I haven't found whether the power supply interface presented at the USB C input is PD, but it says that USB power may be provided while operating.  For the SL2 it did not promise to operate with eternal power, but in fact it does.  How well depends on the size of the external supply.  That may still be the case.

Oops, the USB interface is 3.1 Gen 1, which is the same as the SL says.  So the behavior with external power may be the same -- external power works and supports extended operation but don't try it with a tiny phone charger, use something substantial.

Edited December 10, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[hillavoider]

If its the same battery as sl2 the camera is absolutely useless 

[satijntje]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Simone_DF:

That won't happen. To reach the AF-C performance of Sony and Canon you need PDAF, there's no way around it. 

Best case scenario it will be the same performance of the Panasonic S line with the latest firmware, ie much better than it is now, decent for most people and uses, but still behind the rest.

Canon R5/6 do NOT have PDAF!

[scott kirkpatrick]

9 hours ago, Steven said:

Hybrid log gamma 

what does that mean?

[Chaemono]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb helged:

Thanks @jonoslack! Will be interesting to see a comparison of high-ISO images from SL2-S vs Lumix S1 and S5. Anyone out there...? 

I reconsidered. Given that it is both, a video and a high ISO light sensitive stills camera, what I like about the price point is that one can buy it, use it for a while, and sell it with a “minimal” loss. I doubt that the resell value will be below €3,000 two years from now (original SL around €2,000 today). Calculated as a monthly rental fee, it’s an attractive value proposition. I may get one just to try it.

[ruskkyle]

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46 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

what does that mean?

Essentially a delivery-ready gamma profile with higher dynamic range than traditional rec709. Unlike a Log profile it doesn’t need colour grading before delivery.

[Simone_DF]

58 minutes ago, satijntje said:

Canon R5/6 do NOT have PDAF!

Of course they do. Both have the Dual Pixel AF typical of Canon cameras. Dual Pixel performs phase-detect autofocus from the sensor by splitting each pixel into two light-sensitive photodiodes, with each half picking up light independently.

[Stuart Richardson]

My experience with mirrorless video cameras like the A7S, A7RII SL2, S3 and Panasonic S1 is that the numbers tell one story, but the actual videos tell another. Video processing is such a complex affair that there is far more going on than just a bit depth, bit rate, size and color space. It is the company's tuning that makes the most difference. So far, I have found the most success with the Panasonic S1. Hopefully the SL2S can bring the SL2's video quality up to that level or higher.

[sillbeers15]

17 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

That won't happen. To reach the AF-C performance of Sony and Canon you need PDAF, there's no way around it. 

Best case scenario it will be the same performance of the Panasonic S line with the latest firmware, ie much better than it is now, decent for most people and uses, but still behind the rest.

Would you become a better photographer with the best PDAF based AFC camera?

[Simone_DF]

Just now, sillbeers15 said:

Would you become a better photographer with the best PDAF based AFC camera?

No, it's my camera that will become better.

[tritentrue]

17 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

That won't happen. To reach the AF-C performance of Sony and Canon you need PDAF, there's no way around it. 

You keep posting this over and over as though it's some sort of universal truth, and it's not.

I've owned the A7, A7 II, A7R, A7R II, and A7R IV.  For the type of shooting I do, the SL2's AF-C is faster and more accurate than any of the Sony bodies I've owned and used extensively.

[sillbeers15]

4 minutes ago, Steven said:

I personally wouldn’t become a better photographer, but surely a better videographer. 
It’s not for photos that the AF disappoints me. It’s for video. 

Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately I have yet done any video recordings with my SL then and SL2 now.

[BernardC]

11 hours ago, hillavoider said:

If its the same battery as sl2 the camera is absolutely useless 

Same battery, but a different camera. Here is what the technical data says:

SL2: 1860 mAh (min.), approx. 370 recordings (based on CIPA standard, without EVF);

SL2-S: 1860 mAh (min.); (...) Approx. 510 shots (according to CIPA standard, with auto power-off 10s), approx. 1430 shots (according to CIPA stan-dard, adjusted shooting cycle*, with auto power-off 5s)*Alternating: switch on, one exposure every 3s, switch off after 10 exposures, 5min waiting time; switch on, one exposu-re every 3s, switch off after 50 exposures, 5min waiting time

 

That's around 30% better, which is significant. Mind you, the SL2 has improved somewhat since it was released, so maybe it would score better with the latest firmware.

The other thing that has changed since the SL2 was released is that we now know that it can be charged/powered via USB, so you can pack a cheap power pack in your bag if you know you will be shooting thousands of exposures (and don't have enough spare batteries).

[andybarton]

Let's keep personal attacks out of the forum, please.

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Would you become a better photographer with the best PDAF based AFC camera?

I would keep up the my shooting speed in continuous focus, right now in low light it is just pumping, can not ever see a clear image! you have to really trust Leica to get one sharp pix in there.

[sillbeers15]

15 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I would keep up the my shooting speed in continuous focus, right now in low light it is just pumping, can not ever see a clear image! you have to really trust Leica to get one sharp pix in there.

I'm not sure why you have the need to shoot continuous focus in low light. I selectively only look for correct light (natural light) to pop my subject against a deliberately created dark and blur background like the pics I took below with SL2 on AFC tracking.

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stork billed kingfisher 2 - 1010052 by sillbeers15

[lsdc]

kingfisher:  ... wow ...

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I'm not sure why you have the need to shoot continuous focus in low light. I selectively only look for correct light (natural light) to pop my subject against a deliberately created dark and blur background like the pics I took below with SL2 on AFC tracking.

 

Shooting fashion in golden hour. models slow walking to you. not even that challenging for most cameras. the pictures where mostly focus accurate , but I cold not focus on the face since is was pumping in and out of focus.

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[hexx]

On 12/10/2020 at 2:04 PM, jonoslack said:

More than that, quite a lot of people are already using the SL2 with M lenses, and I think a lot more will find the SL2-S even more attractive. I’ve heard from many saying that they really don’t want 48mp, mainly because of the storage requirements, but also for the heavier processing load.

This might be exactly something that might actually make me switch from my trusty M240 to this new camera. 
 

But to be honest, all I’m waiting for is long-in-the-making Sigma’s FF X3 (true Foveon) camera

Edited December 11, 2020 by hexx