SL2 AFc...

[sillbeers15]

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29 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

That's the DFD in operation. I too find the *flutter* very annoying. The results are better than you might expect from what you see in the VF though. It's the system constantly defocusing to find what direction it needs to move. Something PDAF doesn't suffer from.

Gordon

PDAF system also employ CDAF refocusing to confirm focus at 400 times per sec. This flittering is due to the way Panasonic designs the algorithm of S1/R & SL2 (SL does not have this issue). S5 has this problem resolved. I really hope the S1/R & SL2 get a more efficient calculation AF so the drive speed of 10 fps can be applied to AFC compared to the current 6 fps.

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[lx1713]

The effect does irritate me 😅 And it does take quite a bit to ignore the effect

[AKorenc]

On 12/2/2020 at 8:03 PM, laowai_ said:

What photographer do you want to be? The one who shoots a phenomenal image once in a while or the one who cranks out average shots consistently?

That has nothing to do with which camera the guy uses.

[BernardC]

On 12/6/2020 at 9:17 AM, AKorenc said:

a) science fiction
b) utter nonsense
c) your fellow doesn't have even the slightest idea of operating AF on D850

Your choice.

d) he was using a lens with slow AF.

Maybe a zoom with a small maximum aperture. Or a tele-converter. Or a slow third-party zoom and a tele-converter...

It's not science fiction, I've seen lots of lenses that don't focus fast, no matter what camera you attach them to.

[sillbeers15]

On 12/6/2020 at 10:17 PM, AKorenc said:

a) science fiction
b) utter nonsense
c) your fellow doesn't have even the slightest idea of operating AF on D850

Your choice.

a) & b) - you must be thinking I lied and you can ignore what I said.

c) - yes. I think that is the likely the case.

Btw. Show me real proof on shots you can successfully capture great BIF. Else I treat you as case a) & b).

[AKorenc]

14 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

... you must be thinking I lied and you can ignore what I said.

No, I'm not thinking or saying you're lying ... maybe your friend is. But someone most definitely does not know what he's talking about.

And no, I'm not posting any proofs; I'm using D850 as my main camera since the literally 1st day it became available for purchase and the fact, that D850 is one of the best-focusing DSLR cameras in existance is common knowledge. Google it, or check this video below - or nomerous other videos all over YT ...:
 

You can jump to 7:10:

 

[sillbeers15]

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9 hours ago, AKorenc said:

No, I'm not thinking or saying you're lying ... maybe your friend is. But someone most definitely does not know what he's talking about.

And no, I'm not posting any proofs; I'm using D850 as my main camera since the literally 1st day it became available for purchase and the fact, that D850 is one of the best-focusing DSLR cameras in existance is common knowledge. Google it, or check this video below - or nomerous other videos all over YT ...:
 

You can jump to 7:10:

 

Showing the work from others is admitting you cannot or have not achieved success in BIF. It is only half the story that what the camera is capable of in AF. There is no assurance of a successful shot without the capability of the user. I have proven with my shots of AFC capability of the capability of the SL2 which many other forum users criticised. My point is user capability to optimise the tool plays a big part in successful BIF. Gear is perhaps only 30% and not 100% to getting a good shot. 
Same goes for camera reviews found online. 90% of them don’t add value. They tell us superficial points which any user can easily discover. Plus most of them take lousy pictures showing off the camera capability unconvincingly. Few really understand and share their user experiences like Jono Slack. 

Go out and shoot with your D850 on BIF. You will certainly discover many short comings come from user if you have not done so. There bound to be limitations and weaknesses from the camera. If you can tell me you are capable to keep the BIF within frames more than 80%, kindly share with us your experience and I am glad to listen, else practise more, listen more and perhaps good to talk less.

[Mr.Q]

Honestly I haven't seen an impressive BIF shot from a Panasonic/Leica camera, but I've seen hundreds from other manufacturers.

Mind sharing an image of a backlit bird flying directly at you?  

[michali]

I've always had greater success with BIF using MF & that includes with Sony Cameras as well. It's taken me a quite while, but I'm finally finding my way with the SL2, it's about getting to know your subject's behaviour, the camera's quirks, breaking old habits, but most importantly  it takes time to hone your technique. 

Grey Heron- (Ardea cinerea) SL2 & VE 90-280mm L @ 280mm

Hand held   ISO400 f5.6 @ 1/1250s Single shot mode  AFS - FIELD -  WILDLIFE   

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[michali]

31 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

Honestly I haven't seen an impressive BIF shot from a Panasonic/Leica camera, but I've seen hundreds from other manufacturers.

Mind sharing an image of a backlit bird flying directly at you?  

Not flying towards the camera but heavily backlit. I'm not saying this is an impressive shot, but it's a rather challenging shot. Pied King Fishers are extremely tricky to photograph in flight  A. due to their small size & B. they're very energetic birds flying all over the place, in all directions including hovering vertically up & down when they're fishing.

SL2 & Canon 400mm f4 USM DO ll with with Sigma MC-21 adapter. 

Hand held  ISO400 f5.6 @ 1/1000s Single shot mode  AFS - FIELD -  WILDLIFE   

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[Mr.Q]

Great shot Michali.  Yes, backlit and busy backgrounds are the challenging ones.  It doesn't take much camera or skill to capture slow birds flying sideways with a blank canvas (blue sky).

[sillbeers15]

4 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

Honestly I haven't seen an impressive BIF shot from a Panasonic/Leica camera, but I've seen hundreds from other manufacturers.

Mind sharing an image of a backlit bird flying directly at you?  

I have tons of backlit shots from SL & SL2 on BIF from my earlier days on taking enthusiastic about BIF, unfortunately most of them were discarded. It is no different from taking a back lit family portrait using natural light. I'm sure you do not feel proud to share. The closest to a backlit shot BIF flying directly towards me is shown below just to clear your doubt on SL & SL2 AF tracking capability.

You want to show me what you have taken on BIF? Or you are just out to flame?

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[Paolou Pigini]

On 12/5/2020 at 6:19 PM, lx1713 said:

In general, I keep my SL2 on AFs because I can get sharp images 99% of the time. I'd like to have that variable close to perfection.

I'd use AFc when I can go wide and have a sufficient depth of field for my standards in run and gun where my eyes cannot be in the EVF all the time, shooting from hip, overhead, running with the subject, etc Usually I couple that with face detect.

If the lighting is extremely strong and shadows distinct, I will risk using AFc for critical moments such as a wedding entrance of the bride.

That said, I usually set my focus to the joystick and tap on the zoom in to check on the focus as a prelude to the moment.

Lastly, I like to set image preview to shutter pressed to catch the images as they are shot.

I agree with Gordon, the SL2 is an excellent event camera.

And yes the AFc isn't as good as other brands in many situations, even my Canon 12 year old 1DmkIII was better at candle light at AFc. So I came from a camera that gave me 95-99% focus accuracy to the SL which is about 70-80%  hit rate. The images are what counted. So I change my habits. Trained up to the edge of the SL's limitations. Pull whatever tricks I could to get sharp images.

The SL2 is better. The original SL of mine delivers 99.9% sharp images with face detect with the 90f2 at f4.0 - f4.5 in studio portraiture so it stays relevant despite its poorer performance.

And don't jiggle the camera when shooting, keep it stable when you shoot, you will shave precious computational AF time. Lock down your stance.

Keep working on it, it's worth the sweat to know your camera better.

With the Panasonic S1 I stopped using AF-S already last year, and with the last firmware (1.6/1.7) the overall experience has improved, since the "flittering" has been dramatically reduced. If there is a large quantity of light, most lenses now will also be more silent than before. 

Since the system uses contrast/DFD technology, in AF-C image are perfectly sharp also when subjects are static or semi-static. 

There are limits with very fast moving subjects and with the blackout in high-speed mode.

Currently, the main issue is the lack of  tele-lenses, but I believe that at least Sigma will soon fill in the gap. 

SL2 is going to receive the update soon, while I guess that within one year Panasonic is to present the S2 and I hope that the next generation AF will be transferred at least to the new SL2-S. 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Paolou Pigini

[Simone_DF]

8 hours ago, Paolou Pigini said:

SL2 is going to receive the update soon, while I guess that within one year Panasonic is to present the S2 and I hope that the next generation AF will be transferred at least to the new SL2-S. 

That depends entirely on the Maestro III processor, which may very well be at its limits.

To have a faster / more efficient C-AF, especially with DFD, you need horsepower. A Maestro IV, whenever that hits the market in 2-3 years, may be on par with the A7rII / A7III

[BernardC]

4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

That depends entirely on the Maestro III processor, which may very well be at its limits.

To have a faster / more efficient C-AF, especially with DFD, you need horsepower. A Maestro IV, whenever that hits the market in 2-3 years, may be on par with the A7rII / A7III

Panasonic's recent improvements don't depend on a newer processor. They refined the focusing logic.

You have a good point. Maybe Sony will get better skin tones when their processors are upgraded. They just implemented 10-bit video (4 years after Leica...), so they are probably maxed-out with their current hardware.

[Simone_DF]

11 hours ago, BernardC said:

Panasonic's recent improvements don't depend on a newer processor. They refined the focusing logic.

Correct. But the AF algorhythm is only half of the equation, there's only that much that it can do without a powerful chip to support it.

Just look at the Q2, it has a Maestro II and the AF is far behind the SL2. Face recognition simply does not work.